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 Post subject: Best Nemesis 21 and 18
PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2004 3:32 pm 
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Location: World (KF Admin)
the quality is just fine, couldn't see anything to complain about.
Relaunch I didn't test since I didn' t drop the kites.

Nemesis 18:
in Egypt I was able to take out the 18 for a further ride.
What already felt good on a short ride in Germany, I had some more time in different winds in Egypt.
At the beginning I had less winds and didn't feel much power of the kite, specially when jumping. The jump were not high as I have assumed to.
When the wind picked up I got lifted pretty well, with high and floaty jumps, as I expect it from a 2004 kite. I can't say it jumps higher or less high as any other kite I tried.
If you compare it to a R2 18 you have less low end, but therefore better upwind performance since the kite flies further to the wind window, and also better high end.
It turns very good for an 18 sqm kite. Since I only can compare it to the R4 18, I think they are very similar in performance. Can't remember the R4 18 that much to be 100% sure about the comparison.

Nemesis 21:
I was able to take out the 21 for about 2hrs.
The kite is fast for its size. It turns quick and kiteloops are easy going with it and still possible.
I will now compare it to my R2 20, which I know very well:
It has less downwind pull than the R2 20, the R2 is a harder puller, so ok for heavy riders. Lighter riders can fly the 21 better than the 20.
Less forces on the bar, makes it nice to fly.
The 21 doesn't have such lowend as the R2 20. How much the difference is, I can't say, but I give it about 1-2 knts.
Therefore the 21 has a better high end, is easier to control in stronger winds.
The lift and hangtime is nice, but the R2 20 jumps higher and also longer.
So for me it is not an alternative to my R2 20.
The 21 is a good choice for lighter riders and riders who want to go out in lightr winds and have some waves to play with it. Also for kiteloops.
But for jumping the R2 20 is still the one and only, but only for riders with some weight (around 80 kgs and more).

Conclusion:
The 18 and 21 are good kites and up to 2004 performance.
I still prefer my R2 20 as low wind kite due to its performance.
The 21 compared to R4 20 it is similar, but the R4 20 has a bit more low end, the 21 jumps higher and the 21 turns a bit faster.

This is based on my observations and depending on my style (jumper, more loops now), weight (90kgs), board (X-Shooter XXX), etc.


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 Post subject: Re: Best Nemesis 21 and 18
PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2004 4:54 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2004 4:46 pm
Posts: 204
Location: New Smyrna Beach, FL
Toby wrote:
the quality is just fine, couldn't see anything to complain about.
Relaunch I didn't test since I didn' t drop the kites.

Nemesis 18:
in Egypt I was able to take out the 18 for a further ride.
What already felt good on a short ride in Germany, I had some more time in different winds in Egypt.
At the beginning I had less winds and didn't feel much power of the kite, specially when jumping. The jump were not high as I have assumed to.
When the wind picked up I got lifted pretty well, with high and floaty jumps, as I expect it from a 2004 kite. I can't say it jumps higher or less high as any other kite I tried.
If you compare it to a R2 18 you have less low end, but therefore better upwind performance since the kite flies further to the wind window, and also better high end.
It turns very good for an 18 sqm kite. Since I only can compare it to the R4 18, I think they are very similar in performance. Can't remember the R4 18 that much to be 100% sure about the comparison.

Nemesis 21:
I was able to take out the 21 for about 2hrs.
The kite is fast for its size. It turns quick and kiteloops are easy going with it and still possible.
I will now compare it to my R2 20, which I know very well:
It has less downwind pull than the R2 20, the R2 is a harder puller, so ok for heavy riders. Lighter riders can fly the 21 better than the 20.
Less forces on the bar, makes it nice to fly.
The 21 doesn't have such lowend as the R2 20. How much the difference is, I can't say, but I give it about 1-2 knts.
Therefore the 21 has a better high end, is easier to control in stronger winds.
The lift and hangtime is nice, but the R2 20 jumps higher and also longer.
So for me it is not an alternative to my R2 20.
The 21 is a good choice for lighter riders and riders who want to go out in lightr winds and have some waves to play with it. Also for kiteloops.
But for jumping the R2 20 is still the one and only, but only for riders with some weight (around 80 kgs and more).

Conclusion:
The 18 and 21 are good kites and up to 2004 performance.
I still prefer my R2 20 as low wind kite due to its performance.
The 21 compared to R4 20 it is similar, but the R4 20 has a bit more low end, the 21 jumps higher and the 21 turns a bit faster.

This is based on my observations and depending on my style (jumper, more loops now), weight (90kgs), board (X-Shooter XXX), etc.



If I am a heavier rider would the r4 20 be a better choice than the nemi 21?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2004 5:12 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2004 7:11 pm
Posts: 397
Toby, thanx for the review.

I'd like to know, given your experience, what should the windrange be for a guy with 70-72 kg, for the R4 16, and 18? And also the nemesis 18 (I think the 21 would be too much for me)? I am thinking about a kite that could give me much more low end than my wook2 14m (looking for my light wind kite)

Thank you!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2004 7:11 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 3:06 pm
Posts: 39
Location: Jersey C.I.
Newskin - I am 70kg and my 18Nemesis has just arrived - Maybe I will be able to ride it this weekend....

mike


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2004 7:13 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2004 7:11 pm
Posts: 397
Great! Have fun! :thumb:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2004 11:33 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2003 5:10 am
Posts: 152
Location: San Francisco, California
Newskin,

I weigh 80kgs and had the 18M. The kite pulls very hard, too much for me and my riding style! I would get overpowered too easily on it. Best let me exchange it for a 16M which should be much better for the conditions here. I found out that there isn't a huge difference in low end between a 16M and and 18M for my weight, maybe 2 knots at most. But you get overpowered much sooner with the 18M. We have a lot of windy days so it doesn't make much sense to have a such a big kite. I would rather sit on the beach and drink beers than be out working a kite like crazy in 10 knots of wind so I can't justify having such a big kite.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2004 11:43 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2004 7:11 pm
Posts: 397
Alguaro, but isn't the 18m good in the 7-12 knot range? :-?

Maybe you were riding it in too strong winds...

thanx


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2004 1:50 am 
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Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2004 2:21 am
Posts: 666
I have to agree with Alguaro. I flew the 18 for a few months. I weigh 80 kgs and the kite didn't start to work good for me until 12knts, fine with gusts thru 18 knts. I switched up to the 21 and have only had it out in stronger wind twice. Not in light wind yet. I can feel some seriuos pull from this kite and should work in great in the 9-14knt range. The 16 though gives me almost as much on the bottom as the 18, but i can hold much more wind.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2004 7:14 am 
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Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2003 5:10 am
Posts: 152
Location: San Francisco, California
sorry Newskin, forgot about this thread unitl now. Yes, I flew it mostly in the upper wind range for this kite, but I did get to try it out in the lower end also. For me, 12-13 knots was the lowest wind I could fly this kite and be able to stay upwind on my SS SX 136 board. I imagine that the 16M will start working for me around 14 knots (my 14M Nemi works well in 15 knots).

I've never seen someone who has been able to kite well on any kite in under 10 knots. I'm not saying you can't, I just haven't witnessed it.

For your weight, I think the 18 Nemi would work well in the 10 -12 knot range if you have the proper technique, but jumps aren't anything great and you have to constantly worry about staying upwind. To really maximize your windrange you need a bigger board as well.

I just don't enjoy riding in these types of winds when you can barely jump, and you have to work the kite like crazy to stay upwind.

Plus the bigger the kite, the slower the kite flies and I hate slow kites. Yes, the 18 Nemi might be fast for it's size, but it is still slow.

This is just my thoughts. We have so many windy days here that I don't value kiting in light winds with huge kites.

It's all about want you want out of a kite and the conditions in your area.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2004 6:36 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 3:06 pm
Posts: 39
Location: Jersey C.I.
Hey,

Just had half an hour on the beach with the 18Nem. I am 70KG and rigged up in 7-8kts to check the line lengths. the kite was just about stable but didn't like the lulls too much!

Anyway, got it tuned and then took out the 169 litewave in flat water for a quick rip up and down.

Almost held ground but not quite but was very pleased with how light this felt on the bar compared to my old 16 Black Tip (2002). It turned quick enough to get up and planing and carve transitions at the end of each run. I had the bar pulled in to max power (wing tips not quite flaring) and held the bar there - didn't feel any significant pull so did'nt even hook in.

I agree with Alguero - wouldn't normally bother in this wind and not on the Litewave either but it was a test - first time in the air etc. I reckon at 10 kts I would have been upwind and on a smaller board will probably need a couple more kts.

I'll add to this post when I have used it in higher winds on a smaller board.

cheers,

mike


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