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 Post subject: Hype
PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 2:35 pm 
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FredMurphy wrote:
ZenWind wrote:
Is it just me or was Mark's report a breath of fresh air on this forum? It seems like there has been so much pimping of brands on here that a good honest report is so nice to read for a change. Wouldn't it be nice to see more unbiased reporting on this forum? I am not trying to start a new thread of crap here, but I really appreciate reading a decent report. And it doesn't have to come from a Mark Shinn or other pro rider to be honest and straight forward; just an objective report does it for me. So thanks to Mark once again for your contribution.

I was about to say that somebody will just complain that it's biased anyway and then look what happened:
vp wrote:
who knows if this is real mark shinn? or if it is, he didnt get something from cabrinha to write it.

A good balanced review from a legendary but currently unsponsored rider, and yet somebody still whines! :roll: qoute"

This Mark Shinn is a great rider and person. But it is very naive to believe that this isn't hype. Always wait for joe aveage to review a kite. Mark is part of the industry and is BY DEFINITION BIASED. I'm sorry but that is how life is. If he wasn't paid for his review maybe he is trying to get a job with Cabrinha. Who knows? The fact that he had nothing negative to say about the kite speaks volumes... Maybe it is as great as he says but my money will sit in my pocket until I ride it myself.

Haven't you learned anything from the Blowfish disaster? A sucker is born every minute...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 4:51 pm 
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Location: London, UK
I've now flown a Crossbow myself. I'm certainly pretty average! It's a great kite. Mark Shinn's review seems spot on.


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 Post subject: Review
PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 7:29 pm 
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Fred,

Great you love the kite. That does not mean everyone will. Like ANY Kite design the crossbow will have positives and negatives. It depends on what you like in a kite. Otherwise everyone would ride the exact same kite and everyone doesn't and NEVER WILL. Get real with your review. Outline its advantages and disadvantages. If you need help do a serach on DAX and his reviews. They are well balanced, hype free and accurate. Just saying its great is not very helpful. Mark Shinn already did that and I found it very UNHELPFUL. I want real reviews with a touch of cynisism not "its all good" BS. PLUS HE DIDN'T BOTHER TO RELAUNCH THE KITE OR TRY IT IN DIFFERENT CONDITIONS. Not a thorough review by any means. Also he gave no comparisons or feedback on design limitations. There is give and take in any design. (If it is in fact the perfect kite no other advancements in design are EVER POSSIBLE. ) He knows this since he is a professional. This is why I don't trust Industry types. There like stockbrokers: the bottom line is SELL STOCKS.

Once you understand these things then give us a review. But I highly doubt the C shape is total history.


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 Post subject: Re: Review
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 10:04 am 
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[quote="kiterfighter"]Fred,

PLUS HE DIDN'T BOTHER TO RELAUNCH THE KITE OR TRY IT IN DIFFERENT CONDITIONS. Not a thorough review by any means.

From my reading of Marks opinion, it came across that he got to try the kite and wanted to find out what it could do for him. At that time he probably was not even thinking about passing on his opinion. He kitesurfs under a lot more power than most, so the kite probably feels better to him because it is particularly good in strong gusty winds.


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 Post subject: Re: Hype
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 11:36 am 
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Location: London, UK
kitefighter - I was just saying that as "Joe Average" I agree with Mark Shinn and his review doesn't seem biased.
kiterfighter wrote:
This Mark Shinn is a great rider and person. But it is very naive to believe that this isn't hype. Always wait for joe aveage to review a kite. Mark is part of the industry and is BY DEFINITION BIASED.

I have posted a more detailed first impression on another forum, but as I'm a pretty average rider and only flew it for 10 minutes, I won't bore you with it. There are good and bad things about the kite. Some people will prefer the Takoon Nova to the Crossbow. Some people will prefer sticking to their current LEIs.


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 Post subject: Re: Review
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 2:48 pm 
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Location: Madison, Wi. Cabrinha, Slingshot, Blade, Axis, Epic, OR, Mystic.
kiterfighter wrote:
Fred,

Great you love the kite. That does not mean everyone will. Like ANY Kite design the crossbow will have positives and negatives. It depends on what you like in a kite. Otherwise everyone would ride the exact same kite and everyone doesn't and NEVER WILL. Get real with your review. Outline its advantages and disadvantages. If you need help do a serach on DAX and his reviews. They are well balanced, hype free and accurate. Just saying its great is not very helpful. Mark Shinn already did that and I found it very UNHELPFUL. I want real reviews with a touch of cynisism not "its all good" BS. PLUS HE DIDN'T BOTHER TO RELAUNCH THE KITE OR TRY IT IN DIFFERENT CONDITIONS. Not a thorough review by any means. Also he gave no comparisons or feedback on design limitations. There is give and take in any design. (If it is in fact the perfect kite no other advancements in design are EVER POSSIBLE. ) He knows this since he is a professional. This is why I don't trust Industry types. There like stockbrokers: the bottom line is SELL STOCKS.

Once you understand these things then give us a review. But I highly doubt the C shape is total history.



Dude, chill out. Mark never said he did a thorough review. All he did was fly the kite and posted his impressions. Just because someone doesn't have bad things to say doesn't mean it's not a good review in my opinion.

It also isn't Mark's job to test it in every condition. Man, he was just riding it. so it's up to you to find other reviews that cover 100% of YOUR criteria. So the ball is in your court to make your own judgement based off of all the review on the forum instead of dissing a review from Mark.

Or, just hire him for a day to test the crap out of it and you'll have you're unbiased review. It's no wonder this forum is seldomly visited by the pros. no matter what they do, someone will bitch and complain.

BTW...I say big kudos and thanks to Mark for the review.


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 Post subject: cry me a river
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 5:19 am 
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Cry me a river!!!!!! Thanks Mark

and all of the average Joes who supported his mostly positive review!!!!


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 Post subject: I don't buy it.
PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 12:43 am 
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Joined: Thu Sep 08, 2005 10:13 pm
Posts: 6
Location: Netherlands
I am sure bowkites are the future, BUT:
I will not buy this brilliant kite (yet) for the following reasons:

1. It is too young. I want to see how it develops and what other manufacturers will come up with.

2. Pulleys: Flysurfer at last got rid of these, now Cabrinha introduce them again. The time I saved not to have to pump my kites I spend on cleaning these @#$% pulleys. And let's see what these pulleys do to the ropes after a few moths of use.

3. Bar pressure (I'm so original)

4. Immature control system. The puzzle how to control this 100% depower as a safety system and at the same time being able to rest the bar and/or unspin the lines is not satisfactory resolved yet.

5. It MIGHT get cheaper in the near future (I'm dutch)

My own experience:
When I wanted to test the kite there was really not enough wind. 6 knots or so, but I let it fall out of the sky through its own bridles and managed to relaunch it in 15 seconds with the lines tangled and it flew!
First kite that relaunches even better than a Flysurfer.


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 Post subject: Re: I don't buy it.
PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 7:57 am 
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Posts: 419
Arilex wrote:
...

2. Pulleys: Flysurfer at last got rid of these, now Cabrinha introduce them again. The time I saved not to have to pump my kites I spend on cleaning these @#$% pulleys. And let's see what these pulleys do to the ropes after a few moths of use.

...


The Flysurfer Speed now has 4 pulleys.

I have been flying Boom foils with a 4 pulley depower system since 2001. In that time I have:
- Never had to replace a pulley.
- Spent about 10-20 seconds during setup to give the pulleys a check and a turn to make sure they are still ok.
- Had one bridle line break due to rubbing on a pulley.

The pulleys do a lot of work because I use the chicken loop to constantly adjust the trim and power of the kite.

I am talking about the relatively cheap and simple Ronstan plastic kite blocks. The Xbow has these at the kite bridle and some fancy sealed bearing numbers at the bar ends.

I really only check the pulleys every 4-5 launches. You may want to check them more often if you ride from a beach with very fine sand. A quick twist is ample.

Regards

Greg

PS I was very impressed by the Xbow when I rode it. I will probably wait until the Xbow II or some of the other newer kites come out. The WindWing Rage II sounds interesting.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 9:14 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 08, 2005 10:13 pm
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Location: Netherlands
Quote:
I really only check the pulleys every 4-5 launches. You may want to check them more often if you ride from a beach with very fine sand. A quick twist is ample.


My experience is different. The combination of salt water and fine sand needs more thourough maintenance. I always have a few used credit cards, some dental floss and a plyer handy to get my pulleys going and now and then I soak them in sweet water. Sometimes it is really hard to get them going again. I know from another flysurfer rider that he doesn't bother to keep the pulleys going, but instead waxes the critical parts of his lines that run through the blocked pulleys, which actually might be better. This works only with thin (dyneema) lines however.

I used to have a Titan and a Warrior, which have thick lines going through pulleys, which is even worse. I had to replace these often. And the Crossbow has this too. Especially for the pulleys at the bar I fear the worst. We'll see. Time will tell.

I tried a few more (expensive) pulleys and it turned out that the plastic Ronstar pulleys are the least bad solution. Pulleys with ball-bearings don't work either.


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