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 Post subject: Re: F-One Bandit III review
PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2010 3:05 pm 
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The loop has casually come off and I was to lay out to release a bar. The insurance has worked perfectly. Kite has fallen to a back.
Vegas another kite , more sports. Bandit on mine more universal.


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 Post subject: Re: F-One Bandit III review
PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2010 7:33 pm 
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The one thing I didn't mention about the Evo is power per size. The Evo doesn't have as much for the same size as the Bandit. That and the Evo doesn't come in every size. There is no Evo 11 for instance.

I did try the Bandit on 24 meter lines, but I didn't try the Evo on 22 meter lines. Just because of one session on an Evo felt one way, doesn't mean there are not more nuanced details that distinguish one kite from another. I didn't try looping the Evo, and I didn't jump unhooked, I understand both have different characteristics.

Re Bridal pulleys on Vegas: I saw no pulleys.

One other note about the Vegas, When the kite is set up in "New School" mode it is far less responsive and has less bar pressure, in regular mode the bar pressure is much greater and the kite is not as responsive. But that is the whole point right?

"New School"...since one of the first kite boarders in the world, Lou Wainman was kiteing in this style 10 years ago, you can hardly call it "new school" can you?


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 Post subject: Re: F-One Bandit III review
PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 1:04 pm 
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Oqion, just a couple more questions, I hope you dont mind?

I was confused when you said:-

"One other note about the Vegas, When the kite is set up in "New School" mode it is far less responsive and has less bar pressure, in regular mode the bar pressure is much greater and the kite is not as responsive. But that is the whole point right?"[/color]

In regular freestyle mode (higher depower, how I would ride it) is the kite not more responsive?
and the bar pressure IS heavier?
Is this as heavy as the Bandit?


Last question.
in your initial post you mention that you didn't mean to fall in love with the bandit, but did because you could not get hold of the Vegas.
Now that you have tried them both, if you had to decide again which would you choose?

Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: F-One Bandit III review
PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 6:37 pm 
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To answer the pulleys question.....
the EVO has 2,
the Bandit has 6
If you regard a pulley as a weak point, that could be a worry for the bandit.


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 Post subject: Re: F-One Bandit III review
PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 8:49 pm 
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oqion wrote:
I haven't written a review in a few years, but I have got a lot of requests, and I have a lot of positive things to say about the Bandit. I got to try just about every size on the same day, so here goes.

I think it is important to state what kind of kiter you are if you are going to write a review. I am pretty much a tried and true aggressive free-rider. [pause for smirk]

I am 174 pounds (80Kg). I’ve been kiteing for over 9 years, and while I try the occasional kite loop, or unhooked trick, they are not typically neat. I spend a lot of time hooked in, and going big, tying to get the highest corkscrew front roll with a board grab I can get. Recently I have tried to move in the wake-style direction but with nary an aspiration.

Still I prefer pop to float, but I don’t want to give up hang-time. Until recently I was wishing I had never given up my old generation-one North Rhino, you know, 7 years ago when they were C kites. Since the whole ‘bow’ kite thing, I have simply not been satisfied with -any- kite.

In a nut shell.....(yes I’m the nut)....

Let me say this, hands down, the Bandit 3 is one of the best kites on the market. I have tried a lot of kites but I am very happy with the bandit. The first thing I noticed was the pop, C-style: pull the handle, POP! The second thing I noticed was the kite is far more powerful than most for it’s size. If your bread and butter kite is a 12 (as mine was) go smaller. I got an 11 and I am overpowered on it in conditions where a North Rebel, Vegas, or Rhino (08), or a Cabhrina Crossbow, etc. in size 12 would have been in their sweet spot.

But while there is more power, the kite is fast, and allows for more control. So you get more power under your control with a smaller kite, and more immediate response and bar feel. You know where the kite is at all times.

You control how much power is in the kite and this equates to faster progression. I may not have progressed as much as I think I have in the past month with the Bandit, but I certainly have more confidence, and I am having more fun than I have had in the last 4 years.

What size....

As far as picking a size goes, my opinion is not on what size will work for you for what wind range, it is more of a question of what you want to do with the kite. I can make the 11 work in 11 mph up to 30+ gusting around 40 (hold on tight!). But I can make the 10 work in about the same range say 12 or 13 mph up, and the 9 as well, 14 to 15 mph and up. Since we get fairly constant wind well over 15 at 3ed ave, any one of these sizes will get the job done.

The difference, like I said, is what you want to do with the kite. If you like balls to the wall power, effortless upwind, flirting with the edge of the speed spiral, and insanely huge jumps, the 11. If you want to try some serious technical tricks and you don’t mind working upwind from time to time, the 9. But seriously anything over 30 mph and the 11 is all about teeth grinding, leg pounding, over-the-top power. I’ve noticed a lot of people, especially those who are on their surfboard or directional a lot going with an 8-11 combo. But for me, the 8 on a twin-tip is a little small.

I had wanted a one kite quiver, leaving the rigging decision to be between my usual twin tip and a larger directional for light wind. The 10 would have been the correct size for that, but probably just a bit too big for those making wake-style-esque attempts.

That’s right...If you are the sort to go for a one kite quiver and you are on a 12, the 10 is your Bandit size.

So to recap on the size thing - 11: Huge air, light wind - 10: One kite quiver - 9: Bread and butter, wake style.

Jumping....

The kite has pop. You know where the kite is, and you can control the power that is in the kite. So jumping is that old C-kite feel. The one thing missing (at first) is the big floaty jumps where you feel the kite catch the wind and you glide, often getting secondary lift from gusts etc. But here I qualify this with (at first)! What you get is immediate lift, which makes jumping and progressing so much fun. But those big floaty jumps are still there if you learn how to do them. It took me a couple of sessions, and I was getting just as floaty a jump as any kite I had tried. But thankfully the Pop style jump is the given, easy, no-brainer, and the floater is the learned skill. I have just hated all the recent kites that were the other way around (often to the extent that jumping just wasn’t as much fun.)

Ok...the bad....the bar....

F-One didn’t seem to set the bar very high on the Bar. They make one of the best kites on the market, but it’s like someone forgot to design the bar until the last hour. Luckily for us, the kite uses equal length lines, so just about any bar will do. (My favorite is the North Quad Control because it is the same bar length, line length, and bottom center line length as the F-One bar. Also, the bar is adjustable, so it has a 45 cm setting and a 55 cm setting, one bar will work for multiple kite sizes. All of my bar complaints were resolved with $420 worth of additional cost. Once again, with the North bar, I only need one.)

So what is wrong with the bar?

The first thing I would do is to take off the metal triangle thingy on the front lines. After a failed jump one of my front lines got wrapped up on this triangle and broke. I haven’t heard of anyone else having a line break, but I have heard several others get the front lines wrapped on the line slicer...uh, I mean _triangle_ leaving the kite difficult to control.

A side note is the bungee on the front bottom safety line. It seems like they were trying to avoid the leash-line-flapping-in-the-wind issue you can get with other bars, but the bungee causes the lines to knot up when you crash. Here too, the load bearing line on the front bottom seems flimsy and small, I would prefer this line to be made of a thicker higher grade line. I have heard of this one breaking a lot.

Second thing I would do is to add a dynamically adjustable stopper (like the ones on the North, Naish, or Slingshot bars). The bar pressure isn’t so bad on the Bandit, but it is on the higher side. Having a dynamic stopper helps to avoid ligament injury and simply makes going out and cruising so much more fun. It’s great to set the stopper let off with your front hand and lean over steering one handed off the stopper. Not only that, but it can also be fun to bring the stopper in and jump one handed. This way you don’t have to worrying about keeping the bar sheeted in. I use to love that about C-kites, and with a dynamic stopper the Bandit, and it’s signature power under control, feeds this addiction as well.

The Chicken Loop: the “Donkey Appendage” that is intended to keep the loop on your harness, is too short to do the job. I like fast landings, but often the bar comes down if you choose to land in this manner. I have had several times where the loop came of the hook, and the one hand I had left on the bar was not enough to hold The Awesome Power that is the Bandit.

It was one such event when my front top line broke. Speaking of which, this brings me to another minor annoyance about the bar. The release mechanism is a one sided Velcro affair. I got dragged a bit before I was able to engage this release. It left me with a distinct lack of confidence in exactly the way the awesome power that is the Bandit, didn’t.

Finally: I would recommend the Bandit III to anyone, I didn’t intend on getting hooked on this kite, but it really is worthy of all the hype. I certainly am stoked. The Bandit III, North Quad Control combination really has returned my stoke for the sport.



great review man!!!i have bandit 3 also and i love them....so my lines broke too(one of the midles when it get tangled in the triangle) so i removed the triangle and put a U-key in it's place!!! it's ok now and it also dont tangle at all.for the bar yeah its not the best of the market but you can make it better starting from bigger floater.as for the mini fifth that it is not depowering the kite at all if you release it, just move the knot up or pull more the line when you release it or you loose the kite from unhooking.i love my bandits but i want to have your opinion about kiteloops(hooked or unhooked)!!is it a little slow or i'm doing something wrong???


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 Post subject: Re: F-One Bandit III review
PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 2:50 am 
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Stylo321 wrote:
Oqion, just a couple more questions, I hope you dont mind?

I was confused when you said:-

"One other note about the Vegas, When the kite is set up in "New School" mode it is far less responsive and has less bar pressure, in regular mode the bar pressure is much greater and the kite is not as responsive. But that is the whole point right?"

In regular freestyle mode (higher depower, how I would ride it) is the kite not more responsive?
and the bar pressure IS heavier?
Is this as heavy as the Bandit?



Right, I wrote that quickly and was not clear. The kite is more responsive in regular mode.
It felt to me like it has slightly less bar pressure in "new school" mode and slightly more in regular mode. But I was working from two different sizes, not the same size set up both ways. And when I say "slightly" I mean it's what I think, but they were so close to the same as the Bandit that someone else might think it the other way around.

Stylo321 wrote:
Last question.
in your initial post you mention that you didn't mean to fall in love with the bandit, but did because you could not get hold of the Vegas.
Now that you have tried them both, if you had to decide again which would you choose?


Errrr. I was hoping not to have to answer that question. They are both great kites. I actually am buying another kite, a smaller Bandit.


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 Post subject: Re: F-One Bandit III review
PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 3:55 am 
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Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2006 9:04 pm
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nikalaitzian wrote:

great review man!!!i have bandit 3 also and i love them....so my lines broke too(one of the midles when it get tangled in the triangle) so i removed the triangle and put a U-key in it's place!!! it's ok now and it also dont tangle at all.for the bar yeah its not the best of the market but you can make it better starting from bigger floater.as for the mini fifth that it is not depowering the kite at all if you release it, just move the knot up or pull more the line when you release it or you loose the kite from unhooking.i love my bandits but i want to have your opinion about kiteloops(hooked or unhooked)!!is it a little slow or i'm doing something wrong???


Kiteloops:

Unhooked - I have no idea. I prefer my arms to stay in their sockets. The 11 is way too big and powerful to even think of trying that maneuver.

Hooked - The III does not turn off of the wingtip, it goes through the loop powered. It will loop more from the wingtip when de-powered, but it still doesn't turn or loop "for show". If you loop the Bandit, you better hold on. Given that, the duration to loop is longer. This is different than it being "slow". You wouldn't say that a big floaty jump was "slow", it would be a bigger, higher, and more powered jump that lasted longer. Loops with the Bandit are the same,.. only more scary.


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 Post subject: Re: F-One Bandit III review
PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 4:04 am 
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Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2006 9:04 pm
Posts: 78
Den-Zmey wrote:
The loop has casually come off and I was to lay out to release a bar. The insurance has worked perfectly. Kite has fallen to a back.
Vegas another kite , more sports. Bandit on mine more universal.


Out of some boredom...

Translation?

The chicken loop has come out of my hook before as well, but the safety leash worked perfectly. The kite de-powered and fell on, it's back. The Vegas is for a different purpose. It is a more sporty kite which is freestyle specific. The Bandit is a kite for all riders.

2 things:

1 I was talking about not being able to find and pull the red velcro release which releases the chicken loop from the hook. I personaly find it difficult compared to the Iron Hart.

2 I think the Vegas is a freestyle specific kite. But I think the Bandit is just as much a freestyle kite and more.


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 Post subject: Re: F-One Bandit III review
PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 6:41 pm 
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oqion wrote:
nikalaitzian wrote:

great review man!!!i have bandit 3 also and i love them....so my lines broke too(one of the midles when it get tangled in the triangle) so i removed the triangle and put a U-key in it's place!!! it's ok now and it also dont tangle at all.for the bar yeah its not the best of the market but you can make it better starting from bigger floater.as for the mini fifth that it is not depowering the kite at all if you release it, just move the knot up or pull more the line when you release it or you loose the kite from unhooking.i love my bandits but i want to have your opinion about kiteloops(hooked or unhooked)!!is it a little slow or i'm doing something wrong???


Kiteloops:

Unhooked - I have no idea. I prefer my arms to stay in their sockets. The 11 is way too big and powerful to even think of trying that maneuver.

Hooked - The III does not turn off of the wingtip, it goes through the loop powered. It will loop more from the wingtip when de-powered, but it still doesn't turn or loop "for show". If you loop the Bandit, you better hold on. Given that, the duration to loop is longer. This is different than it being "slow". You wouldn't say that a big floaty jump was "slow", it would be a bigger, higher, and more powered jump that lasted longer. Loops with the Bandit are the same,.. only more scary.



i have no problem with the un hooked's.i.ve looped the 6 thru 11 and the loop is awesome with the fishpole grip....i think you are right!they are scary with the bandit but did u said that i have to loop with depower when i'm hooked so the kite will pivot itself easier or am i wrong???

thanks again


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 Post subject: Re: F-One Bandit III review
PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 5:52 am 
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Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2006 9:04 pm
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Quote:
but did u said that i have to loop with depower when i'm hooked so the kite will pivot itself easier or am i wrong???


You are not wrong.


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