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Which kite brand do you fly?
Naish 12%  12%  [ 92 ]
Flysurfer 8%  8%  [ 60 ]
North 10%  10%  [ 79 ]
Ocean Rodeo 4%  4%  [ 28 ]
Best 15%  15%  [ 117 ]
Peter Lynn 6%  6%  [ 44 ]
Slingshot 8%  8%  [ 60 ]
Cabrinha 11%  11%  [ 87 ]
RRD 1%  1%  [ 8 ]
Gaastra 1%  1%  [ 8 ]
Flexifoil 1%  1%  [ 6 ]
Wipika 3%  3%  [ 20 ]
F-one 2%  2%  [ 19 ]
Takoon 3%  3%  [ 27 ]
Globerider 3%  3%  [ 22 ]
Liquid Force 3%  3%  [ 20 ]
Monkey 1%  1%  [ 8 ]
Other 5%  5%  [ 38 ]
Totally mixed 4%  4%  [ 34 ]
Caution 2%  2%  [ 16 ]
Total votes : 793
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2004 5:13 pm 
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Location: A Best owner; ex F-One, SS, North, Cab owner
Good stuffs R! :D


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2004 5:28 pm 
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R in this case though like i said, because of the large number of people, the poll can be said to be a good marking point for the kites people that read kiteforum use. yea there are its flaws like you mentioned, but its pretty much like the surveys that are taken at the mall.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2004 5:36 pm 
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Location: Portland, Oregon
R - Okay, but why did you pick North's cheaper kite and Best's expensive kite to make the comparison? Also if you figure in bar/lines the numbers get a lot more interesting:

Cost of 8-12-16 R4 quiver complete: $4049.85 - 20% = $3239.88
Cost of 8-12-16 Nemesis quiver complete: $1548.00 kites + $389.94 3 bars + 27m lines = $1937.94

The cost of the Nemi quiver complete is less than half the cost of the advertised R4 quiver. You're right though, its not 3x as much, or even half as much as a discounted quiver.

I got the 3x quiver by comparing the cost of a Nemi quiver to the cost of a R4 16m complete. Not totally fair, but not that big of a stretch either as you don't always have the option of buying kite only.

Anyway discounting kites isn't that great a deal for the retailer. They buy the kites with the idea that they are going to get a certain margin, with the discount they lose out on a percentage of that margin. Good deal for the manufacturer and distributor, but not the retailer.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2004 8:38 pm 
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Location: Portugal, Salvaterra de Magos
Don't forget to add shipping costs to the R4 quiver :P


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2004 10:52 pm 
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Dax wrote:
R - Okay, but why did you pick North's cheaper kite and Best's expensive kite to make the comparison?


I thought Best doesn't sell expensive kites.? :lol:
Why Vegas vs. Nemesis? 1) They came out around the same time. 2) 5 strut (+tip struts/battens) design 3) I had the numbers handy. 4) It's just an example. 5) It's my example :P

Quote:
Also if you figure in bar/lines the numbers get a lot more interesting:


It does?
Best is recommending 3 different bar lengths for your example quiver.
For North kites you need 1 bar and line set for all kites.
But really the best bar vs the 5th element is not a fair comparison.

Eraser wrote:
Don't forget to add shipping costs to the R4 quiver


I have a local retailer. If you don't you may get the dealer to pick up the shipping on his end. Just ask.

'caneman wrote:
because of the large number of people, the poll can be said to be a good marking point for the kites people that read kiteforum use.


No, not really. Large numbers of subjects don't make up for a flawed subject selection. A flawed selection process can very easily lead to a biased cohort. That pretty much invalidates any conclusions you may wish to draw from your numbers. I'll stick with my previous statement: The poll shows which brand people support that have internet access, spare time, read kiteforum and decide to participate in a brand poll. The last part is important.

If we want to do a survey of kite preferences of forum members we would need random sample selection. Toby could for example email 100 randomly chosen forum members the survey. The cruicial part is that he would need to get a fairly high return rate, otherwise we bump into the self selection problem again.

R


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2004 11:51 pm 
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R -
Buy a 5th Element bar then to go with your best kites. It will still cost over $1000 dollars less than the discounted Rhinos. $1000 dollars, wow thats a lot of money, lets say it again: $1000 dollars. Spelled out this time: ONE THOUSAND DOLLARS. Lets think of a few things you can do with your extra thousand dollars:

1) Go to a windy warm spot in the offseason (I went to SPI, TX and it only cost about $800 dollars.)

2) Buy a couple extra boards, maybe a skimboard (for lightwind), and a super small board for nuking wind.

3) Spend it on your girlfriend, then she'll forgive you for bolting to go kite all the time.

4) Pile it on the floor and look at it, strip down naked and roll around in it.

5) Better yet use it for lessons for your girlfriend, so she can enjoy herself too!

6) Pay a hobo to pump up your kite every session ($5 dollars a session should do it.)

...

The list goes on, but its kind of weird that so many here would assume to think that paying thousands of dollars on sewn fabric is a completely legitment use of money. Sure I can understand while the sport is trying to get off the ground, but it has been 5 years already... its time for prices to come down to earth.

Arg, I need to go kiting... :bye:


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 25, 2004 10:22 am 
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Location: Brisbane, Australia
I just did some thinking and for our area (3rd largest city in Australia), you could almost invert all of the poll figures and it would be more accurate!
That's thinking of around 60 or so kiters with an average of 2 or 3 kites each.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jul 25, 2004 3:26 pm 
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Location: A Best owner; ex F-One, SS, North, Cab owner
Kurt wrote:
I just did some thinking and for our area (3rd largest city in Australia), you could almost invert all of the poll figures and it would be more accurate!
That's thinking of around 60 or so kiters with an average of 2 or 3 kites each.


Kiteboarding is still a very nascent sport... so it all depends on the nearest distributed brands to your spot... sometimes it's the brands the local instructors use... this list... it's really about global present, not a regional brand... e.g. try to find a Caution kite outside of San Fran area... the top of the list is about major GLOBAL brands... but the situation is always fluid... look at dominant brands in 2002... lots of Wip and F-One... and Best... well it didn't exist before this year and look at where the company is now... who has not heard of Best... mind share sells kites!


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2004 11:20 am 
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Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2004 9:46 am
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Location: France - Leucate - Canet (66)
F-One rulez !


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2004 3:18 pm 
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Location: New York
3 sling shots, 2 Gaastras


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