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Which kite brand do you fly?
Naish 12%  12%  [ 92 ]
Flysurfer 8%  8%  [ 60 ]
North 10%  10%  [ 79 ]
Ocean Rodeo 4%  4%  [ 28 ]
Best 15%  15%  [ 117 ]
Peter Lynn 6%  6%  [ 44 ]
Slingshot 8%  8%  [ 60 ]
Cabrinha 11%  11%  [ 87 ]
RRD 1%  1%  [ 8 ]
Gaastra 1%  1%  [ 8 ]
Flexifoil 1%  1%  [ 6 ]
Wipika 3%  3%  [ 20 ]
F-one 2%  2%  [ 19 ]
Takoon 3%  3%  [ 27 ]
Globerider 3%  3%  [ 22 ]
Liquid Force 3%  3%  [ 20 ]
Monkey 1%  1%  [ 8 ]
Other 5%  5%  [ 38 ]
Totally mixed 4%  4%  [ 34 ]
Caution 2%  2%  [ 16 ]
Total votes : 793
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2004 4:01 am 
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Location: A Best owner; ex F-One, SS, North, Cab owner
realitycheck wrote:
Vietkiter wrote:
Quote:
I haven't seen too many 04 Best kites being offered on the used kite markets... which indicates a high customer sastifaction rate...


Yes viet, no one has seen to many Best kites anywhere. But your alter ego seems to think they are HUGE. Saw a few brand new 3 fer 2's on Ebay.
[/quote]

Somehow you think whether Best market share is 11% according to this ad hoc survey or 30% or more according to gumball is really germain to us weekend kiteboarders.

Let take the extreme case that Best only sold one kite... would this lessen the impact Best has had on kiteboarding... kite prices are more attractive across the board... So whatever brand you choose, enjoy the Best 342 trickle down effect!


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2004 3:02 am 
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Location: North FAN located in Kure Beach, NC USA
gumball wrote:
CoastPop wrote:
I somehow doubt the BEST figures


Just to clear things up, based on annualized sales for our first 5 months in business, Best is by far the largest kite company in the world.


How do you know the sales figures of your competition? Is the factory in China really dumb enough to give competitiors sales numbers to you? North kites are made in China and Sri Lanka. I don't think any company publishes sales figures. Are you making an educated guess?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2004 12:08 pm 
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Nice to see that PeterLynn kites gets a good share of the users.

Hmmm...and what is Best kites?
Cant understand how all these new brands can find financing any more.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2004 12:27 pm 
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vietkiter wrote:
Foxi wrote:
in Germany online shops offer discounts between 20 and 25%, so that Best receives very strong competition from established brands with guaranteed resale value.


Forgive my arrogance if this is simply a "loss in translation" issue... since my comprehension of German is nil...

But "guaranteed resale value"????? I would love to hear what exactly does this mean in terms of discount and average price after 3 months, 6 months, 12 months? I haven't seen too many 04 Best kites being offered on the used kite markets... which indicates a high customer sastifaction rate... as oppose to stuntc's beloved 04 CO2... which apparently is "dramatically improved" in 05 compared to 04... that really makes me feel good about my 04 co2 that was purchased earlier this year... don't my money feels really stupid.


Viet, you simply have to watch how prices on e-bay Germany and other local sites with used gear (oase.com) develop and that indicates what I called "guaranteed"resale price.
Will keep you informed how demand for a brand new Nem 12 was when e-bay auction ends up next week:

http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=14355&item=5109036370&rd=1

Changing from Fuel 04 quiver to Vegas 04 cost me 80$ per kite avg. Vegas 12 I paid 849$ kite only right on my office desk yesterday noon.
For me it´s "guaranteed" that I will get at least 700$ when changing to Vegas 2 next spring. That´s simple experience with second hand market and a strong brand offered.

Vegas incl. 5E, which is available in Germany right now, can´t be made up by even 200$ lower price. We don´t trade in a BMW by a Toyota as well .. ;-))


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2004 4:58 pm 
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Location: A Best owner; ex F-One, SS, North, Cab owner
Foxi wrote:
Changing from Fuel 04 quiver to Vegas 04 cost me 80$ per kite avg. Vegas 12 I paid 849$ kite only right on my office desk yesterday noon.
For me it´s "guaranteed" that I will get at least 700$ when changing to Vegas 2 next spring. That´s simple experience with second hand market and a strong brand offered.

Vegas incl. 5E, which is available in Germany right now, can´t be made up by even 200$ lower price. We don´t trade in a BMW by a Toyota as well .. ;-))


Ok, if you are paying $850 for a 12m Vegas delivered... seems very low if true... but if it is... you should thank Best for making it possible... in any case let's assume you are right, and a quiver or of 3 kites cost $2500. Let's assume 1 year depreciation is 50% or $1250 (may be more). Since a Best quiver costs roughly the same (as your one year depreciation) delivered (at least in the US), you tell me who has "guaranteed value." Let take the extreme case that the Best kites can only be sold for $1, I am still $1 better off than you.

Now, I am not going to get into the performance / brand argument... plenty of posts already... all I will say is that you will definitely get more interest / approach / conversation / comment with the Best kites at the beach for sure...

On the same note... I am not going to get into the snobbish brand comparison... its catchy sound bite, but not reality... but I will say that if gumball ends up with a Toyota market share relative to North's BMW market share... do you think he would be unhappy? Your choice... rides Best and drive a yellow Ferrari... or flies North and drive a BMW... the choices...

As to 5E, I'll wait to see how well it works... or will it be beta version like 04 Recon.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2004 8:03 pm 
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dwight, figures are 'available' to those tightly in the industry, from a number of sources, i've seen lists detailing all major production last year. 03/04 sept -sept and the numbers arent huge, no one did 20k+, we're not talking exact figures but ball park 100's or 1000's depending on total volume.

so using these as a guide and predicting year totals from quarter year figures its a relatively simple step to making bold and as yet unsubstantited claims.

time will tell....


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2004 5:10 am 
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Joined: Mon May 24, 2004 1:25 am
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Quote:
I paid 849$ kite only right on my office desk yesterday noon.
For me it´s "guaranteed" that I will get at least 700$ when changing to Vegas 2 next spring.


New Aero II costs $500. X2 - $700 (but you can huggle lower than that). Good luck selling your used kite for $400.[/quote]


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2004 5:39 am 
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Location: A Best owner; ex F-One, SS, North, Cab owner
harakiri wrote:
(but you can huggle lower than that).


That sounds like a deviant sex act... all for a kite?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2004 12:09 pm 
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probably local markets are different worldwide but currently Best is not acting as competitor in german used gear sections and demand seemingly unchanged high for the very few "good old brands" such as Slingshot and North. Believe me, I´m really surprised about this situation myself as Best received very good reviews in german Kitemags and is offered by dealers in german along used gear in those forum sections !

Let´s wait and see how next year is going to develop but currently you hardly sell new kites without 5E or similar systems !

greets and have a nice and windy weekend !


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2004 2:56 pm 
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harakiri wrote:
Quote:
I paid 849$ kite only right on my office desk yesterday noon.
For me it´s "guaranteed" that I will get at least 700$ when changing to Vegas 2 next spring.


New Aero II costs $500. X2 - $700 (but you can huggle lower than that). Good luck selling your used kite for $400.


I paid $1500 for my 3 Nemi's. I plan on selling them for around $300 a piece at the end of the season. That's 60% of what I paid for them, seems fair. :D


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