Contact   Imprint   Advertising   Guidelines

2008 Liquid Force Havoc Review

Forum for kitesurfers
User avatar
Dax
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 2757
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 12:41 am
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Portland, Oregon
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

2008 Liquid Force Havoc Review

Postby Dax » Wed Aug 15, 2007 9:37 pm

2008 Liquid Force Havoc
Sizes: 8, 10
Conditions: 15mph-35mph, chop and flat water
Location: Gorge
Ability: Intermediate/Advanced
Other kites flown this year: 2007 Waroos (owned quiver), 2007 Yarga 9m (owned), 2007 Bullaros, 2007 Boxers, 2007 Fuel 11m, 2007 Crossbow 9m, 2007 T2s, 2007 SS Links, 2008 SS Revs, 2008 Naish Helix 9m

Pros:
- Awesome unhooking performance
- Clean easy to use bar
- Boosts are easy to hit, goes high
- Grunty, lots of low end
- Very light bar pressure
- Steers well from center of bar
- Relaunches well
- Only two pulleys on the bridle, instead of 4
- One pump

Cons:
- Has sliding rear line leash on bar but tough to grab
- Kiteloops on par but not the smoothest of the 08's

Summary:

Fun to demo the 08 Havocs the last few days. First impressions out of the bag: Nice one pump system, very clean. Setup is easy with colored connectors. The bar is nice and has a very easy to use below the bar sheeting system. You can clip your leash to the handle on the end of the depower rope and it will pull through the sliding stopper. Overall I found the below the bar elements very nice much easier to change sheeting and cleaner than my current SS setup.

The bridles are simplified, only one pulley for each side of the bridle. The front and rear bridles are connected through a pulley on the kite, but there is no pulley on the front bridle. I never put the kite in a situation where the bridle would get caught, but it seemed like it would be difficult to do given the wide wing tips on the kite and relatively short bridle.

No battens, which is nice!

In the air the kite is well behaved like you'd expect from an SLE. Bar pressure is extraordinarily light, meaning you don't really even need the sliding stopper above the bar. If you keep your hands in the middle of the bar the kite feels great and turns easily. Really where the kite shines is when it comes to boosting and unhooking.

Boosts were very easy to feel your way through and it always felt solid through the jump. Most of the other SLEs I have tried have a much harder to find sweet spot, whereas with the Havoc it always feels like you hit it. The other riders that tested the kite felt like they got their biggest jumps of the day on it.

Unhooked I think this is the best SLE I have tried. It offers a very consistent and easy to handle pull. The kite is very controllable unhooked. The other 08's I have tried, the Rev and the Helix, fly well unhooked, but sometimes they can power up giving you more pull then you want. The Havoc feels very C kite like unhooked and I think that's a good thing.

The kite soaked up the gusts easily, depowered well. Under a lot of depower the canopy fluttered a little but not more than you'd expect.

The downsides:

Its nice having the really clean bar, but I think having an easy to grab o-shit handle on the rear lines would be a good feature. There is a velcroed strap thing on one of the side lines that you can grab and leash to, but its small enough you would not be able to grab it in a hurry.

The relaunch is very good by any standard, but the Helix and the Rev offer sub 5 second relaunch every time. I never failed to relaunch the Havoc when I tried but I noticed it didn't seem to have the magic flip over and go relaunch of the Rev & Helix.

Kiteloops were not the smoothest, the 8m fluttered a bit if I didn't mind the sheeting during the loop. Honestly I think the kite loops well by any standard except when compared to the Rev. Speed of the loops were about on par with the Helix. For straight turning speed I thought the 10m Havoc was a bit faster and more responsive than the 9m Helix.

Conclusion:

This is a great kite, and for anyone interested in progressing in their unhooked tricks or even just as a boost style jumper I think it will be very good. The kite's light feel on the bar will probably appeal to smaller guys and women, or for anyone who doesn't want to have more bar pressure than you need to steer the kite.

We had the kite on the beach along with a Naish 08 Helix, Slingshot 08 Rev, and some 07 Waroos. Most of my friends felt like they nailed their biggest jumps on the Havoc and that it felt the best unhooked. I thought it looped as well as the other kites minus the Rev, but most people aren't doing kiteloops so I think that probably won't matter for the majority of consumers.

I tried the 07 Havocs earlier this summer and though I never had perfect conditions for them I don't feel they nailed it nearly as well as they did in 08. If you have tried the 07's and weren't impressed you should give the 08's a try. They are solid kites. :thumb:

Buzzy
Medium Poster
Posts: 144
Joined: Wed May 14, 2003 8:54 pm
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Carved Teamrider , Germany, Venezuela
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 1 time

what is a good kiteloopkite?

Postby Buzzy » Fri Aug 17, 2007 8:01 am

Hi Dax,

thabnjk you for theeffrot youa re putting into your reviews..


One question rises when reading it..

what i good about the Revs kiteloops and not on the Havoc

I´ve flown the rev 11 a few times but I don't find the kiteloops special,

So the Rev turns fast (it does), but it is quite stally (it likes to backstal (as all SLE kites)..and it does not produce alot of power in the loop.it slides too muchn trough the turn

I guess it might be allright for hooked kiteloops when it is powered up..


still the ony kite that do "good" kiteloopsare real C-kites with square tips

(do the spin as tight as you decide to, maintain power in the turn, do not backstall even when not so powered


So I think if you describe how a kite loops, you have to go into more detail.

how does it turn (direkt= the moment you move the bar, with feeling).yeah the rav is quite direct for a SLE

does it produce power in the turn (nah, not a lot), if you fly a big arc in lot of wind it does, but not that hard

and mostly I wish you would describe the stalling behaviour

that is what bothers me most with kites (any kite can backstall, frontstall) but how much does it take..do youy have to sheet in and out all the time or does it have a sweetspot

how much presure can you apply to the backlines


so if you speak about the HAvoc, what does it make great for unhookinghaven't flown it)
because normally it is the same that makes it good for all the other good stuff..

a good unhooked kite should not stall, should take a good amount of backlinetesion, should be able to loop tight without too much pull but still some, and should have sme good ground, it should not stall after loosing and regaining tension in the lines (a lot of SLEs bows do it)


if you read Paraglider reviews thats half the stuff they talk about (the stalling behaviour)


P.S i ride Carved fireballs, but love a lot of good C kites

User avatar
Dax
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 2757
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 12:41 am
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Portland, Oregon
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Postby Dax » Mon Aug 20, 2007 6:03 am

If you are looking for more C kite style (more legit every time) kiteloops the Havoc is very good at those.

Its good for unhooking because its grunty and steers well unhooked. I can't really describe it much better than that... all I know is it feels more like a C kite and thus the good stuff C kites do unhooked this kite does.

I could talk a lot about Rev kiteloops but this is a Havoc review, maybe ask about the Rev loops on my Rev review...

Cheers :thumb:

Buzzy
Medium Poster
Posts: 144
Joined: Wed May 14, 2003 8:54 pm
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Carved Teamrider , Germany, Venezuela
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 1 time

Postby Buzzy » Mon Aug 20, 2007 7:39 am

hi dax..


to put it short, does it stall after the loop?

does it finish the loop clean?

(like a C would do)

if it does it would be one of the few SLEs that does it

cheers basti

User avatar
Dax
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 2757
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 12:41 am
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Portland, Oregon
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Postby Dax » Mon Aug 20, 2007 4:52 pm

The Havoc did a better job of finishing the loop than pretty much every other kite I have flown except the Rev. The Havoc's loops were more pronounced in arc, more like a C kite.

The Rev can do pinwheel style kiteloops if you pull it too hard. If you pull lightly it does bigger loops with more power. Either way it always completes the loop, fast. I didn't experience the stalling you talked about unless the rear lines were way too short and I was in lighter winds.

I think there are a ton of freestyle riders that don't give a crap about kiteloops and would probably prefer the Havoc over the Rev. My feeling is that the Havoc is a better platform for unhooked stuff than any of the other kites I have tried to this point. Its just a very solid boat like feel unhooked like a C kite, but with the extended range of an SLE. It also boosts really well.

If you have other questions about the Rev I'd prefer you ask them here:

phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=2341101

Cheers! :thumb:

alsbirk
Frequent Poster
Posts: 206
Joined: Fri Jul 11, 2003 11:39 am
Gear: LF prod. and samples
Brand Affiliation: Involved with R&D for LF
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Postby alsbirk » Wed Aug 22, 2007 7:19 am

thanks for the review. I have been riding Havoc ´08 12 a couple of times - not enough to give a full review but so far I´m very happy with the kite!

T

Mick
Medium Poster
Posts: 155
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 6:58 am
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Postby Mick » Wed Aug 22, 2007 12:16 pm

If anyone wants some more reviews of the 2008 Havoc - and the 2008 Hi Fi and Session - go to this link

http://www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/foru ... orum_id=25

alsbirk
Frequent Poster
Posts: 206
Joined: Fri Jul 11, 2003 11:39 am
Gear: LF prod. and samples
Brand Affiliation: Involved with R&D for LF
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Postby alsbirk » Wed Aug 22, 2007 12:25 pm

man..the Hifi needs a chapter of it´s own, that kite is soooo great :-)

T

scottnorby
Medium Poster
Posts: 192
Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2005 6:33 pm
Kiting since: 1999
Weight: 210
Local Beach: WASHINGTON
HOOD RIVER
OREGON COAST
PISMO BEACH
LA VENTANA
Favorite Beaches: Northern Oregon coast downwinders
Gear: SPACESTICK - Foilsurfer - Wingsurfer
SPACESTICK- 5’3 MICRO convertible surf foil
NAISH - 2020 jet foils
SLINGWING V2
Tomo- Hydroshort
CHANNEL ISLAND SURFBOARDS - 6'8 bandit
FERAL wetsuits
Neil Pryde Armorskin wetsuits
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 11 times

Postby scottnorby » Sat Aug 25, 2007 4:06 am

Just got off the water....rode the new 2008 Havoc.
I agree with Dax's review fully.

I am beyond impressed.

08 Havoc has it all.
Very light bar pressure, boosts HUGE and has great hangtime, turns fast, all around amazing kite.
I found nothing about the kite that I did not like.
All the construction details are amazing.

I am 200 lbs and rode the 14 in 15 to 20 mph wind in waves.

I am stoked again for another season.

Great job Julien Fillion and the LF crew.

User avatar
kitesurfrabbi
Frequent Poster
Posts: 410
Joined: Tue Feb 18, 2003 6:00 pm
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Austria
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0
Contact:

Postby kitesurfrabbi » Wed Aug 29, 2007 7:01 am

ups i this fits here as well:

i've spent quite a few sessions on the havoc 12 now and one great session on the havoc 10 yesterday morning. daxes review is spot on!

the kites are more direct, more punchy, fly faster and and have better low- and highend than havoc1 had (which i am used to for a year now). the 12 could probably be my biggest kite (90kilos), it gets me going in 10 knots on a recoil136.

the bar is even better than last year, its colorcoded now for those who complained about it and it has some special eva on the top that makes it almost sticky to your fingers once your hands are went

oh, and i like the grafix a lot: [img]phpbb/files/havoc2_492.jpg[/img]


Return to “Kitesurfing”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: airsail, Baidu [Spider], Bing [Bot], Brent NKB, bshmng, chidism, Clarencephil, Google [Bot], ham-er, jjm, lander, MKM, purdyd, rafd, Tiiga, Trent hink, Vivo3d, WindeeGuy, Xtream, Yahoo [Bot] and 684 guests