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Ban Half Day Lessons III

what bothers you?
anything to say without your name?

keep flaming - here's your chance !


Postby fokiten » Wed Jul 20, 2005 4:34 pm

uncleneil wrote:Kitepower, Listening to Fo and Sea & Sun is like listening to a broken record. They say the exact same thing over and over. I for one thing your advertiseing is fine but no mater what you do or say, they have deaf ears. Not once have they answered you questions about how they would do a lesson. Because they wouldn't and have no idea how. I have taught over 1000 people to kitesurf and know others that have taught more. Many with the half day lesson and not one accident or close call from any of them. Almost all of the accidents or deaths have been from experienced riders biting off more then they can chew. Save your breath.

There is no way that Fo could run this forum. Of course it wouldn't be a forum then with only himself and Sea & Sun talking.
Regards uncey,,

Well kitepower slagged his way into flamer's,

But the facts remain, Sea&Sun is more interested in people's safety than stacking up tourist cash...

It's true there "are" bogus lessons, It's true there "are" Bait and Switch, used-car-salesman level ads. (see above text)

The support of yet another lesson pimp can only be judged on its merits.

Folks can read, I suspect you can also, yet you choose to indorse the sleezball text, despite of your abilities; that's the truth, and that's not something thinking folks will igrone!!!

,,,,,think about that, uncey, and know you've stepped in it now,,,



It's time for some EQUITY in kiting.

I'd guess that's something to fear and slag if you're a lessons pimp?

why else would they slag the straight up comments?


He has been booted/ thrown off the main forum for slagging.

You boast of 1,000 lessons...k/p boasts of 3,000

We can add and we can read the ad...

Enough said...

It's time for some equity in kiteing.

we've foxes in our hen-house...



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Postby uncleneil » Thu Jul 21, 2005 2:28 am

From Fo: "we've foxes in our hen-house..."
Is that a fox in your avatar? I think your the only fox in the hen-house.

Fo again: "Well kitepower slagged his way into flamer's"
Actually Sea & Sun did that when they started this post.

As for the instructors with thousands of students, we have found a way to teach people how to learn in a safe environment. You on the other hand, just keep bashing the people that teach. Of course you don't teach and have nothing better to say. You do say we charge too much but you have no clue between insurance, gas, advertiseing, and the cost of the boat or jetski. Good instructors don't come cheap either. You get what you pay for. A shop in the tri-state area around us gives very cheap lessons but has had over 20 accidents in just over a year of teaching and is involved in a lawsuit now for those cheap, uncertified instruction that you feel is the right way for people to go. Oh! I'm sorry. You believe they should be free, don't you?

By deep water lessons you mean anything in the water I hope. Doesn't have to be deep. If you can't control a big kite on the beach then you won't be any better in the water. Every single person that has been taught on the beach first has said that this lesson did a great justice for them before getting in the water. You say don't teach rigging of the kite. Boy are you dillusional. That is one of the most important things to know before ever launching a kite.I think it's time for you to shut up or show us a better way to do it. But thats impossible since you don't teach for a living or even have a clue.


Postby fokiten » Thu Jul 21, 2005 2:44 am

You sound angry?


You admit there are bad/cheap/or bogus lessons.

You sound like you have a boat, that's a good thing.

I beg to differ that flying a kite in the water is easier than standing firmly with your feet on the ground.

You claim a few wierd things though,, so what's new?

This thread was Praised by Toby, page 1 go look.

I only listed this (k/p) site per request of the thread's author; solely on the basis of the time for the TOTAL package, and the claims made in the text.

I wouldn't even know about it, but for a boast back in the day...

These are the facts

What else ya got?

Let's see,,,

Well, I actually say the best value in money lessons is assisted deepwater time.

I also say, that you CAN learn for free if you have pals that kite and a boat.

I also say if you don't go pay somebody.

What's with all lies?

It's easy to slag, I don't do that. The facts are quite enough.

What else you got??

O' I listed my lesson plan, go comment on it, instead of insisting I have none,,,(you know people can read) and when you bulshit it dosen't help you,, you know that right?

why do it?

I even asked for proffessional input go look...
(fo on lessons)

Better start being a little more factual, a little less childish.

I rarely bother with nuisance posts.

Go ahead, fresh start,,,I'm here for you


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Postby Scribbler » Thu Jul 21, 2005 12:52 pm

Fo, man, that was a VERY piss poor, lazy lesson plan you posted.
Down to the bottom of the class please. And go learn how to teach

Sure whatever, go fly a trainer, when you feel experienced enough let me know and we'll get you out there and have you give it go.
Thanks, There's maybe 3000 willing students per year queing at your door... are you sure you wouldn't rather be out riding yourself?
Body dragging is automatic, it happens every time you fall, why do it on purpose?
One day it will get you back upwind to the beach when it all goes tits up. That day may well be your first (and last) on the water. Dragging saves lives. Unless, let me guess, you wear a lethal board leash (Ditch it, you pussy)
Ride the board, get comfy,, get some experience with a real kite.
Easy as that? ride the board eh? how? you don't even know how to fly a big kite/relaunch/send it thru the zone, park it, trim it cos its frikkin windy: no-one rehearsed it with you, or told you what to expect was coming... you want the student to learn the hard way? stop wasting his time, give him the verbal benefit of your wisdom before he's lost at sea. It's that simple
The key thing is to live though it, so you better do your mistakes out in the deep blue.
Could be your last mistake sending it helicoptering thru the zone without a clue about the theory of why that's a bad thing or how/when to use the safety ('Hi, meet the beach,,, oh I'm sorry, you drowned already')
You need the experience to take the edge off the fear, experience is the thing that will season you.
Dealing with the risks on the beach are part of that experience. you can minimise them rather than stick your head in the sand and pretend that when you're gone, your student will know what the hell to do next
You don't want to be a terrifed rookie launching a full sized kite on the beach for the first time.(there alweays is a first time so better be on the water
That's why you do the first launch with small kite or short lines. Gottit?
What you want and need is some experience.
And the benefit of someone elses collected experience... that's what teachers are there for, numpty....
Have at it gang..
Done. It's boring now and we should all agree to disagree


Postby fokiten » Thu Jul 21, 2005 3:25 pm

LoL,,call me a pussy and post about teaching bodydragging as if you teach it.

first off, you can't bodydrag up wind underpowered, and body dragging is

You can't claim to teach someone something that cannot be avoided.
it's just laughable,,you have an ,ego problem maybe?

I teach bodydragging,,fucking hilarious. nobody ever failed to get drug as far as I know...

and IF they ARE powered enough to go upwind YOU fucking put them in danger BECAUSE you teach(lol) bodydragging from the beach.

most likely, you've just wasted their time...


Hey, hate to breck it to ya, if you don't want to get slammed don't fucking kite.

This is part of that sham, the safe safety safe safe sham,

No fucking way can you kite without taking a hit.

to pussify the gear,,is not a service to them it's a service to you, "the bodydrag master,lol.

next, kite skills are better learned safely, in the water.

All the short or small experience dose not apply,,they need to know how to fly the big kite.

more waste of their time,,they don't need you to fly a trainer, more ego myth.

I teach wind window,,,lol,,fucking hilarious,, as if the wind window dose not exist befor you teach it...

The sad part is you think your a skilled instructor,,,LOL...

The facts remain,,you have no justification whatsoever in saying you taught them something other than ...

THEY STILL need some watertime on a kite.

It's all ego all the time.

Let them kite,,,

quit ripping them off



Postby fokiten » Thu Jul 21, 2005 3:40 pm

here's the deal,,

All that BIG MONEY beach stuff is fluff.

just fluff

it's fluff


You need to spend time on the water with a real kite,,or you will never, ever learn to kitesurf



Postby fokiten » Thu Jul 21, 2005 3:56 pm

To say,

I, or they or them, who ever takes you out to give it a go, isn't talking about the same stuff you talk about is fancyful,,,kiters love to talk about kitting...

When we did traning days,,we put them out on smaller kites first,,,

ten minutes,,maybe 15,,then there was nothing else to learn,,,underpowered, don't really do anything other than teach that they need more juice...

So we give them more,,it just was a no brainner,,(there's your tag line)

Hey,, if your teaching guys who will make good kiters then cut to the chase...

If you're taking money from cluless tourists,, well your already being disingenious,,so might as well protect your ass and pussy up.

I understand.

That's the real difference between my thinking and yours.

I don't pimp kiting,,,,you do.

That's why we cannot agree,, you think everybody should be on a kite, I don't,,,,

Kiting is NOT A HEALTHY liesure time activity,,

It's serious shit... DO YOU DISAGREE????

>>>Dispute that,,and you'll have undermined my lesson plan<<<<<

Good Luck with that,,,,I don't think you can do it.

Kiting is not a liesure time recreation,,,


dispute that,and you'll have justifed advertising it as



all you need to go it alone in 4 hours

That's what this thread is about.

dispute that,,,

you cannot, yet
you presume to impeach "my" manhood, "my integrity" by calling me a pussy...

dispute that...

Nice work, scribble

thanks for your reply
Last edited by fokiten on Thu Jul 21, 2005 4:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Scribbler » Thu Jul 21, 2005 4:33 pm

fokiten wrote:Kiting is NOT A HEALTHY liesure time activity,,

It's serious shit...

Dispute that,,and you'll have undermind my lesson plan
Not too difficult to undermine your lesson plan when it's complete bollocks, eh Fo :thumb:

How long does your magic lesson last ?

btw, something I've wondered, what exactly do you mean by EQUITY in kiting? (Is it the Legal (Share), Financial (Value) or the Common English one which nobody remembers because of all the Lawyers & Bankers (Fairness))


Postby fokiten » Thu Jul 21, 2005 4:42 pm


equity (èk´wî-tê) noun
plural equities
1. The state, quality, or ideal of being just, impartial, and fair.
2. Something that is just, impartial, and fair.

You see,,you take the liberty to be tertiary both in your verbage and your

Please, no, rather some day you may obtain a first order understanding...

Until then,,

I'm laughing my ass off at your third rate justification's.

Hope you understand that chooing to be ignorant, comes at a price...

You cannot choose to do so,,,> and< stand up to scrutiny.
you simply (pun intended) cannot...

Do you get it now?? doubt it,,LOL


Postby fokiten » Thu Jul 21, 2005 4:57 pm

When we did boat training..

We'd take them out everyday,,until they could go upwind, do little jumps, get the stick,,,,,relaunch,,

Until they were kiters for real,,,

By then,,,thay already pretty much knew the rest of it just from watching us and listening to me blab on,,,about kiting..


no contest

your, thrid order thinking only goes to line your pockets...

nothing else

It time for some equity in kiting,,

we've foxes in our hen-house.

There's a better way to teach


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