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Real's Trademark Lawsuits

what bothers you?
anything to say without your name?

keep flaming - here's your chance !

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Postby zero » Thu Nov 29, 2007 2:59 am

I can only assume that 666 is either being sarcastic or is a trial lawyer. The point of the country’s legal system is to have everyone act according to the laws that have been createdâ€â€

Skyway Scott

Postby Skyway Scott » Thu Nov 29, 2007 3:02 am

Zero, I think Terrios is actually serious.
Terrios. What exactly is a business born retailer?
Is it the son of a used car salesman? You lost me. Salesmen are born?
Like it's genetic? Wow. Expand on your theory.

After you expand on it, I won't reply.
I have said my fair share on this and it's obvious how I feel about lawyers suing over WATER TIME and how fast kiting is becoming a victim of the dollar and greed. It's sickening and it's not restricted to only Real. I see it everywhere, every time I go out. A lot of my venting is toward Real but also just money grubbers that claim to love our sport, in general.
Have fun Terrios.

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Postby thechenzo70505 » Thu Nov 29, 2007 3:15 am

I am disappointed with real's decision to pursue these actions, they have a great formula, but I can no longer support them, and will not recommend them to any of the hundreds of interested people whom I know that want to get into the sport of kiting. This may have little impact on their organization, but I hope that the other kite schools/retailers in the area benefit from this disgraceful and pathetic cash grab.

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Postby Jahmi » Thu Nov 29, 2007 3:24 am

How long ago did Real Trademark the phrases and how long has the other schools been using them? If Real has had them trademarked long before these schools started using them then I can see their basis for the lawsuit. If Real recently trademarked these phrases and is suing without any prior notification then that is just disgraceful.

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Postby Brent4336 » Thu Nov 29, 2007 3:25 am

The Terminator has passed legislation in Cali that addresses precisely this type of lawsuit.

""Proposition 64 will stop the legal practice of shakedown lawsuits, in which private lawyers file suits without any client or any evidence of harm. This turns lawyers into bounty hunters, stalking innocent small businesses that create jobs and opportunity in California." Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger."

Hopefully something more states will consider as shakedown lawsuits are really and truly a form of extortion.

Hope this is not what's going on in the OBX.

Was good to see a little post from REAL Co. Though a great sentiment it was a pretty blatant deflection.

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Postby dark conscience kiter » Thu Nov 29, 2007 3:31 am

I think its still funny how people keep ranting on real but really don't know any of the facts behind this case... If we could get them (either Kitty Hawk et al or Real) to come on here and give us the facts, then you could make a fair judgement on this... is there a script of the case somewherE? Maybe real sued cause someone used their lesson names which were intellectual property, maybe they called first or sent letters, what if, what if, what if, all in all it's our choice to support whoever we want, but making rash decisions or judgements with no facts at hand is, well, American! Plus, I don't think Real or anyone else like Kitty Hawk Kites really gives much of a shit about the kiteforum or peoples opinion here... most well-to-do American kiters probably spend their time trying to make more money and then spending it on kite gear, lessons, vacations etc., not hanging out on forums hahaaha...

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Postby dazza5172 » Thu Nov 29, 2007 3:36 am

You cannot patent the English Language, sorry but this whole flamer thread seems to miss that point except for a few who have touched on it. You can patent a style of printing it, a way it is said in certain circumstances (like a stupid radio advert) I am sorry to have to be the messenger that I am sure you can still express yourself in English formally.

Also you can get done for copyright if you actually copy someones work and it is not your Intelectual property, but you still can have ownership of language and other generic life works. This is the whole software business issue with once something becomes a monopoly you can't then dictate on it.

In Australia people think that when they register a business name or a company name it gives them sole rights to this name, this is not true. It gives them the right to trade under that name but they do not own it. And you cannot patent an English phase alone, the only way you can trade mark it is to make it unique, like I can say Best all I want, its the 'best' I have the 'best', 'best best best', but I can't use the Best logo and font if I was selling something or printing on a product, as it is not mine for example. In Australia I could even say 'we have 'the best' kites' under our Fair Trading Laws as it is considered a throw away phrase, but I can't print BEST kites on my home made kite and sell it. That would be a breach of copyright and/or patent potentially.

(I only used BEST as it was the 'best' example in English)

Also just because you have a name does not give you automatic rights to that name in the market place, many people have been victim assuming they have exclusive rights because it was their name and they did not protect it or register the business name.

It is not that hard, not here anyway.


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Postby Greg7 » Thu Nov 29, 2007 3:40 am

I don't know about Australia, but Real has those terms trademarked, so as far as them being used in relation to kiteboarding, yes, actually, they do "own" them, so to speak.

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Postby dark conscience kiter » Thu Nov 29, 2007 3:41 am

yea so if someone used "WaterTime" as the name of a lesson and tried to sell it, would that be a breach of the copyright?? just like using "BEST" on your homemade kite and trying to sell it????

Skyway Scott

Postby Skyway Scott » Thu Nov 29, 2007 3:42 am

To my knowledge, Real, Kitty Hawk and Extreme can't hop on here while it's in process. I know that they are more than interested and do read this stuff. I wouldn't underestimate how many people read this forum, even if only a small fraction post.

This is a well written post, imo. I dug it out of flamers.

McKite wrote:Obviously everyone in the kiting community feels the whole thing is ridiculous. I've been to Real for lessons when I was first starting out and I have to say they did a top notch job. I have since recommended the school to others looking for the fastest, safest way to get into the sport. Their focus on marketing is understandable in a competitive business but has begun to come off too strong as of late.

That they choose to make a legal issue of terms as generic as 'water time" and "ground control" is disappointing. They have numerous other named lessons, e.g. Double down, Getting Lit, Holy Grail, etc.... that might justify trademark protection but what really is to be gained from that?

While I feel neither case has justifiable merit they are going after two very different companies. Kitty Hawk Kites operates in the same general area as Real and focuses on instruction as much as retail. The geographic proximity might give their case some legs.

Ocean Extreme Sports however operates 4 states away in Florida. Lessons seem to be minor part of their business as opposed to REAL. I think the issue with Ocean Extreme is that they are such an excellent retailer - they do a lot of business, will beat almost any price and in my opinion have better selection and cost than does REAL. I think that the lawsuit directed at Ocean Extreme is designed to be punitive for their expertise as a retailer and the competition they represent rather than anything to do with infringing on intellectual property regarding lessons.

REAL should think this through - it is bad blood for the kiting community. Though I still think they are great at teaching kiting it will be hard for me to recommend them after this. Is that really the sentiment they are after?

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