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 Post subject: Safety Rick Isn't Safe
PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 9:44 am 
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Posts: 711
1. This whole keep it low thing is a huge oversimplification of the problem. If you are 75kg then you have 75 kg of force to pull against the kite when it is directly above you. If you have the kite low then you may have more force or less force to pull against the kite depending on what kind of surface you are on. For example, if you are on nice sand with good traction you will get more force to pull against the kite then your 75 kg if you keep the kite low. If you are on the most slippery ice you have ever felt they you will have zero force if you keep the kite low. There are many surfaces in between, for example slippery rocks, sharp shells with no booties (you can't dig in here), slippery mud, etc. Once you lose your grip with the kite low you loose most of your force against the kite. With the kite above you the kite pulls you straight up and you land back down usually pretty softly. Keeping the kite low is necessary in some situations. Keeping the kite high is necessary in other situations. In most situations it just doesn't matter where it is. A 70 knot gust will take you for a ride regardless. Telling people that keeping the kite low is safer is a joke. It's been repeated so many times, that everyone believes it to be a fact. It's not. Get over it Rick.

2. Check out Ricks avatar. The guy holds the bar at the end. The guy holds the bar at the end. Oversteering the kite is what causes most (not all) "loftings". Rick wants to blame it on the weather. What really happens most of the time (not all) is that some guy gets hit by a gust, loses his balance and oversteers the kite, generating a lot of power at the worst time. Holding the bar in the middle give you something to balance against with out steering the kite too much. He won't comment on this because he knows it's true.

3. Rick thinks kiters should be taught COREGS (I don't even know what these are) to instruct kiters on how to interact with each other in crowded kite areas. It's something about right hand forward (starboard tack) has the right of way. This makes no practical sense at most kite spots. He'll whine, it's an international rule that's been in place for 10,000 years. Well guess what? Our sport is new. It's faster and more dynamic than yachts cruising around in the sea. Who even knows what right of way means? Does that mean you go upwind? What if the rider is a beginner that can't hold an edge? The list of exceptions goes on and on, to the point to where it only makes sense if you have two identical riders on identical gear approaching on flat water with no one else around, at which point you have to wonder why they would even need COREGS to avoid a collision.

4. This doesn't really have to do with safety, but the psychology of this guy. His building of his name/brand on the misfortune of other kitesurfers is disturbing.

Rick the garbage you promote is dangerous. Give it up.

Are you going to sue me now? You already threatened me once. I know you love the legal system.


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 Post subject: Re: Safety Rick Isn't Safe
PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 10:05 am 
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 8:58 pm
Posts: 2704
Location: Tarifa / Got 2 Ovandos and a Ripper
Satan wrote:
1. This whole keep it low thing is a huge oversimplification of the problem. If you are 75kg then you have 75 kg of force to pull against the kite when it is directly above you. If you have the kite low then you may have more force or less force to pull against the kite depending on what kind of surface you are on. For example, if you are on nice sand with good traction you will get more force to pull against the kite then your 75 kg if you keep the kite low. If you are on the most slippery ice you have ever felt they you will have zero force if you keep the kite low. There are many surfaces in between, for example slippery rocks, sharp shells with no booties (you can't dig in here), slippery mud, etc. Once you lose your grip with the kite low you loose most of your force against the kite. With the kite above you the kite pulls you straight up and you land back down usually pretty softly. Keeping the kite low is necessary in some situations. Keeping the kite high is necessary in other situations. In most situations it just doesn't matter where it is. A 70 knot gust will take you for a ride regardless. Telling people that keeping the kite low is safer is a joke. It's been repeated so many times, that everyone believes it to be a fact. It's not. Get over it Rick.
are you referring to the lofting which happened some day ago ? in this case I have to agree with you in this one , how long did the kiters ( on the vid ) were holding their kites at the beach in such winds ? 30 seconds ? or maybe 1 minute ? well thats 1 minute too much , in such a extreme conditions they should activate their QR while on the water but what I saw on th vid was plain stupidity
2. Check out Ricks avatar. The guy holds the bar at the end. The guy holds the bar at the end. Oversteering the kite is what causes most (not all) "loftings". Rick wants to blame it on the weather. What really happens most of the time (not all) is that some guy gets hit by a gust, loses his balance and oversteers the kite, generating a lot of power at the worst time. Holding the bar in the middle give you something to balance against with out steering the kite too much. He won't comment on this because he knows it's true.
Haven´t notice that one but judging from a pic is wrong
3. Rick thinks kiters should be taught COREGS (I don't even know what these are) to instruct kiters on how to interact with each other in crowded kite areas. It's something about right hand forward (starboard tack) has the right of way. This makes no practical sense at most kite spots. He'll whine, it's an international rule that's been in place for 10,000 years. Well guess what? Our sport is new. It's faster and more dynamic than yachts cruising around in the sea. Who even knows what right of way means? Does that mean you go upwind? What if the rider is a beginner that can't hold an edge? The list of exceptions goes on and on, to the point to where it only makes sense if you have two identical riders on identical gear approaching on flat water with no one else around, at which point you have to wonder why they would even need COREGS to avoid a collision.
agree , most problems in that matter are related with beginners
4. This doesn't really have to do with safety, but the psychology of this guy. His building of his name/brand on the misfortune of other kitesurfers is disturbing.
you are wrong , I think he has done for the security of our sport more than anybody else
Rick the garbage you promote is dangerous. Give it up.
again , he is not perfect but insulting him is definitely the wrong way
Are you going to sue me now? You already threatened me once. I know you love the legal system people will read this and they make their own thoughts , I doubt you will change anything .


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 Post subject: Re: Safety Rick Isn't Safe
PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 10:35 am 
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Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2006 8:38 am
Posts: 1630
Location: Kilkeel, Ireland
bis repetita non placent.


Last edited by tungsten222 on Wed Feb 03, 2010 10:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Safety Rick Isn't Safe
PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 10:55 am 
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Joined: Wed Nov 08, 2006 11:18 am
Posts: 36
Satan wrote:

3. Rick thinks kiters should be taught COREGS (I don't even know what these are).


Surely it is the fact that YOU DONT KNOW the rights of way rules that makes them not work!
It is YOU (satan) at fault for not knowing them.
If you are riding port tack(left hand foreward) it is up to you to avoid the oncoming rider, either upwind(kite high) or downwind(kite low) it is YOUR resposibility to alter course to avoid collision. Is it really that difficult to get THAT into your head?


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 Post subject: Re: Safety Rick Isn't Safe
PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 10:59 am 
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Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2001 1:00 am
Posts: 29293
Location: World (KF Admin)
so we are not allowed to hold the bar at the ends anymore?

Guess why this goes into Flamer's Paradise!

Some stuff can be discussed about, but not in a low level posting like this.

And personal vendettas have nothing to do on here.

And I'm convinced, that Rick saved some people's life with what he is doing for all of us.
Not sure if you did...


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 Post subject: Re: Safety Rick Isn't Safe
PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 11:09 am 
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Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 7:11 pm
Posts: 669
Location: UAE
Satan,

When on the political offensive,
It's best to prepare a better policy to present to your audience.

Otherwise you come across as a whinging pussy-loop with personal issues.



Must be warm & windless down where you're at.


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 Post subject: Re: Safety Rick Isn't Safe
PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 3:09 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2008 1:52 pm
Posts: 103
Location: Fort Worth Texas
Like it or not there are already Laws in place.
Should I ever be in a serious accident I want to at least know the basics of the laws.
I don't mind speeding but I at least want to know what the speed limit is while I'm doing it.

"Those seeking official versions of the
Navigation Rules should refer to the International Navigational Rules Act of 1977 (Public Law 95-75, 91 Stat. 308, or 33 U.S.C. 1601-1608), and, the Inland Navigation Rules Act of 1980 (Public Law 96-591, 94 Stat. 3415, 33 U.S.C. 2001-2038). "

Short version :)
http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/mwv/navrules/rotr_online.htm


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 Post subject: Re: Safety Rick Isn't Safe
PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 3:49 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2007 6:07 pm
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Location: RI
the reason Satan is so bitter:

Rick is from sunny Florida where all the kite girls are 100% babes, Satan on the other hand is from Cambridge MA where all the girls look like Pete Rose, enough said :roll:


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 Post subject: Re: Safety Rick Isn't Safe
PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 4:09 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 28, 2004 2:39 am
Posts: 148
Location: New York City
I think there is proof in the video that keeping the kite low works - another guy just up the beach has his kite as you should - pointing into the wind as low as possible with someone scrambling to catch and land him at the exact same time the gust hits - if Kevin's kite was in that position i doubt nearly as much damage would be done...


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 Post subject: Re: Safety Rick Isn't Safe
PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 4:27 pm 
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Location: The United Mistakes of America
Good call, Toby - Satan just wants to justify going out in stupid conditions and Rick has the data telling him what he doesn't want to hear. Facts are tough for people like Satan to swallow when they conflict with his beliefs.


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