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Toby's plan to debunk The Switch..

what bothers you?
anything to say without your name?

keep flaming - here's your chance !

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Re: Toby's plan to debunk The Switch..

Postby CaptainArgh » Fri Dec 09, 2011 6:28 am

I have not been keeping up with the Switch threads, nor noticed them as I only read the topics that look interesting to me, but the way I understand kiteforum is this...

Anyone can post about whatever brand they want, but if a manufacturer starts flooding the forum without paying for advertising, Toby calls them out on it. I've seen in the past that they do get a few free passes, but can't go overboard for the reasons Toby already pointed out.

That's what I have are free to post about a brand which doesn't advertise here. I'm guessing the Switch posts got out of hand which is causing some above average filtering to get things back in check.

There are some brands that are much more represented here than others, and that is due to the passion of that particular user base OR a company which pays for coverage (then their reps are tolerated, if they disclose their brand affiliation). Could also be the company saying "if you liked your demo (and the deal I just gave you) please post a review!" And within reason, that seems tolerated here also.

Let the Switch uprising die down, if they don't advertise and end users are stoked about the product and want to talk about it, I'm guessing it'll be okay. ;)

In summary, don't get your panties in a wad! :jump:

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Re: Toby's plan to debunk The Switch..

Postby Dimitri M » Fri Dec 09, 2011 6:44 am

Poster: droffats
Now that is some FUNNY SHIT! In the time it took me to write my post, Dimitri posted his. I had no knowledge he was gonna troll this one too! Ha. I thought I'd be writing something in a forum he would only come across while searching for his brand's name. But he actually posted in the time it took me to write. Trollin' from China!
Kites might be great, but when is he going to realize he turns off potential customers with his ambulance chasing style hard sell? There is a good reason all the other brands don't push so hard -- credibility being one.
Whaoooo....I think you are wrong droffats. I am not turning off any potential customers at all. Actually we are getting more and more customers wanting to buy epic kites. We are running out of kites and this is one of the reasons why I am here in China. The only customers not wanting to buy an EPIC kites might be you and and few other people on this forum that are jealous on how good EPIC is doing. For example, you are the one who mentioned about epic, at the beginning of this thread correct!!! And not to forget you always have been negative about Epic kites.
Also I always check different threads to see what is going on and see if any one needs any help with kiteboarding. I don't see any thing wrong with that. Ok time to get back to work and let this thread die.

P.S. By the way so you know we are going to have to hire few people to help us out with orders because of the demand. And on another note a bigger kite company tried to buy us out recently. But guess what!!! I said NO.
Last edited by Dimitri M on Fri Dec 09, 2011 7:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Toby's plan to debunk The Switch..

Postby MissionMan » Fri Dec 09, 2011 7:04 am

I'm going to be perfectly honest and say I don't spend a whole heap of time on Kiteforum anymore. The pimping frustrated the crap out of me, and I don't find value in posting her much anymore.

In defence of Toby, I will say I agree, if manufacturers want to get their product out, pimping it with reviews is not the way to do it. Most posts from people with anything less than 20 posts to their name are ignored and people don't respect the opinion or the review. There are ways of marketing a product without having to bombard people with forum spam. I suggest those manufacturers who want to get their name out be inventive of it, but forum spam is not the way to go (If you want good viral marketing, do a search for new zealand ghost chips. Its a drink driving advert that went viral through approaching their marketing in the right way. Let the manufacturers find inventive ways to get people's attention.). Best seemed to make a business out of it on kiteforum but now that there are 10 or more manufacturers doing the same, its annoying as hell. I already won't touch a best no matter how good the kite for this reason, same reason as I would never buy anything from a spam email.

Against Toby I will say the following: I understand its a business, but there is an obviously line between pimping and advertising and these should be separated. Kiteforum is only value as long as people are reading it and when the pimping gets the better of them, they will go elsewhere in search of other options with less pimping. The advertisers here are given free reign to pimp and I don't believe any manufacturer, shop or team rider should be allowed to post on a non-related post. I.e. if someone posts an article relating to North, there is nothing more annoying and frustrating than having someone from Best, Epic or any other brand replying to the post with a "man, you should try my kite its the greatest" kind of crap, or worse, how bad the other product is. The kitesurfing industry seems to attract these people because it seems like there are a lot of these surf mentality people starting businesses without any clue of business ethics or acumen.

I'm sorry if this rubs people up the wrong way, but thats my stance. I see all this pimping as nothing more than forum spam. I understand Toby has to make money but I don't believe forum pimping would be written into their contracts. I've seen other forums run well on banners alone.

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Re: Toby's plan to debunk The Switch..

Postby Build more rails » Fri Dec 09, 2011 7:51 am

I would not even have looked at this site if switch had not came up as a kite option for me,
So in a positive Toby I get to check out you site and see what is going on in the kite world. So one could say they are helping you out.
I checked out their kite names on here before buying and all I have found is kiters fighting what's with that guys?
If you compare it to surfing,
You buy a board from a backyard known sharper, great board at a good price, you paddle out and it snaps !!!! Gutted that's surfing

By a super tuff Board at top dollar ,twice the price and it lasts three times as long, you paddle out
Same six foot surf it snaps too, that's surfing

Surfers want a good board at a fair price, they know they may snap it but at a fair price the drop into that wave or the air they are about to try is worth it!

I would rather try new tricks on my good cheap kites and be able to buy a new one when they pop or get trash due to my crashing,
than ride around not trying tricks on my expensive good kites because I need them to last so long or be worth $$$ for resale

Switch has a market place for guys that need a kite at a fair price just to ride and trash to progress, resale value who cares!!!! rip it on a rail or let it get washed in after you got smashed trying your first barrel

Let small company's have a go at something new the sport needs to grow it will help everyone out,
Wanaka nz
P.S build a rail it your local spot

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Re: Toby's plan to debunk The Switch..

Postby Toby » Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:02 am

Laughingman wrote: Let's keep this alive folks, I'm sure there is more afoot here then Toby's advertising dollars.
I am sure there is more about your actions as well...maybe you can tell us more about what you do etc?

ah, and off to Flamers again! And pls, don't waste my and people's time and adding new topics. Just post here or in the fromer topic your bashing against me!

Maybe Switch offered you a free kite if you keep this going? Then I can understand you!


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Re: Toby's plan to debunk The Switch..

Postby wannakitesurf » Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:19 am

windmaker wrote:Is the other thread gone?

I think many are missing the big picture. This is not just about Switch. I posted a video which I really liked and Toby kindly explained that he had to delete it because the kite brand did not support the site.

Toby's has the right to run this forum as he whishes. That is clear! The problem is that many people just like me were not aware of this filtering and pay to post going on and that is misleading. I always though this was "The kiteforum" and not Toby's kiteforum...

I realize it is work and different persons see it in different ways but as long as everyone knows why some threads get more traffic than others there is no problem.
exactly......there should be a Home Page CLEARLY stating that affiliated posters are on here "pimping" so we know there is a possibility that the advice we get might be biased from affiliated posters.
I can see advertisments but didn't realise "pimps" were posting.

Bit of a contradiction here......
Quote from Number 6 of the guideline
6. You may not use for commercial or advertising purposes

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Re: Toby's plan to debunk The Switch..

Postby naishdude » Fri Dec 09, 2011 1:54 pm

I hesitated a long time before reacting on this and the other thread, but here I go.

First I will tell you I am a pr/ team/pimp/witch/bitch rider for Switch ( not to mention all the other names I/we got)
My nickname is not to comfuse, but I have it already at least 25 my windsurfboards were Naish, and still ride an old Naish kite waveboard.( just to clarify, there is nothing more behind it)
As I read all the comments on both the threads/topics, it is getting a little bit childish, maybe it is due to my age, ( 57) that I read it with some questionmarks popping up...on how people react to things.

Let me tell you that I have posted in a lot of threads on Switch behalf, and yes I think I was one of the first to write under my name I have switched...u2? so yes I am that guy.

I want to say this on behalf of myself, Switch and Toby:

I have seen the posted and afterwards deleted post, as I remember well ( and Toby correct me if I am wrong) it was a posting with the pictures of the 3 kites Switch is selling, with the text that is used on the Switch website.
Honestly, in one way I can understand Toby, that he saw this as pure advertising where has not been paid for, instead of a review.

I posted a lot and adviced some people in having a look at the Switch website when they were for example writing I am looking for a wave kite or or....
Non of these have ever been deleted and are still on the forum.

I have written some small reviews and posted some selfmade pictures for people who asked or for a picture, or replied to the review, these topics have not been removed, correct me if I am wrong Toby, I believe they still are there.

I get the Swicth kite newsletters, where I can proof you that they have never said that you can win a kite in pimping Switch, what they wrote is write a REVIEW on any kiteforum ( so not only this) and you are in to win a Switch wetsuit...this I see as an incentive..

To my humble opinion, I think a lot of people are over reacting, and have a short fuse.

Again and this might hurt my relationship with Switchkites, if it was the thread with the sum of pictures of every Switch kite with the same text as on the switch website, I can understand out of Toby's view, that he saw no added value in this topic and removed it, I do not know if he messaged the poster or not, what ever.

So again I think everybody all of you are a bit over reacting!

Please we have a nice sport and we all love our kites and brands, and will defend it , like I did for years on a row with Ozone...and now I defend Switchkites, it is a way that I think is just helping some that do not get a chance to test and have to live by reviews...

Believe me, if something is wrong I will tell, and a lot more of us will give you right information,, what would be our benefit, to give you the wrong info, rather no customer than a not satisfied customer, who will write here on this and other forums, why he does not like the kite and so on.

I do believe, and this is not pimping, that Switch kites still has a long way to go, and the most of it will be done by mouth to mouth advertising and people getting a chance to test a kite from a teamrider.

I just want to say, people enjoy your sport whether it is with a Best, epic, mutiny, core, slingshot etc...

Good luck! and peace, Naishude!
Frank L., I have switched..u2?
Last edited by naishdude on Fri Dec 09, 2011 4:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Toby's plan to debunk The Switch..

Postby Kamikuza » Fri Dec 09, 2011 3:23 pm

Phooey, enough ragging on Toby about Switch - I think it's time for a PMU-supercharged Flysurfer thread! :naughty:
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Re: Toby's plan to debunk The Switch..

Postby Laughingman » Fri Dec 09, 2011 4:53 pm

Toby wrote:
Laughingman wrote: Let's keep this alive folks, I'm sure there is more afoot here then Toby's advertising dollars.
I am sure there is more about your actions as well...maybe you can tell us more about what you do etc?

ah, and off to Flamers again! And pls, don't waste my and people's time and adding new topics. Just post here or in the fromer topic your bashing against me!

Maybe Switch offered you a free kite if you keep this going? Then I can understand you!

Honestly Toby, my recent posts are solely motivated by my disagreement with your behavior. There are enough people on this forum who know who I am personally so there is no doubt that I am just a guy that kites. I have no involvement with the industry at all. In fact I ride Flexifoils, and not new ones either... I do not know the Switch owners, I have never had any contact with them what so ever. They did not offer me anything to post here or anywhere else, EVER! Although, I'd take a free kite if they offered to me now..... :rollgrin:
I work as a Project Manager for an exhibit company. We design and build exhibits. We do not have any clients that are in the kite industry.

The point I am trying to make and I will use Billies analogy.If I am at a bar and I want to talk about widgets, but the bar owner doesn't want me to talk about widgets. He might throw me out, but if he did he would be violating my right to freedom of speech. By telling me that I cannot talk about Switch kites by sharing news or a review of the kite I tried, you are essentially violating my right to freedom of speech in a bar where I am welcome as long as I don't talk about widgets...
If I signed my rights away when I became a member of the forum, if there was some small print that said I wave my right to freedom of speech then so be it, but I was unaware that you could choose what I was allowed to talk about, (obviously you must act in a respectful and legal manner).

Here is my honest opinion of switch kites, the Method seems like a nice kite but they don't make enough sizes to entice me to buy them, the Nitro is no different then my Ion3's, fun to fly but hell to relaunch so why throw money away when I already have what the Nitro can offer. The combat, is just annoying, when you flip the kite over the battens flap around so much you could damage your hearing. They are well built kites, but so are the rest of the kites in the world today, the only thing Switch has on the competition is price, and I think that is a pretty good reason to buy something if you need it.

So now there you have why I don't agree with your behavior.It has nothing to do with Switch at all.

Also, I don't recall bashing you, why would you say I did?



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Re: Toby's plan to debunk The Switch..

Postby Toby » Fri Dec 09, 2011 6:34 pm

fair enough Pete, thx for the info.

Just be nice to the bar owner, otherwise he will give you now beer and will take the girl away sitting next to you ;-)

And let's make 50/50 when you get the kite from Switch, and you can say what you want.
I like that new KF business model!!!

I guess talk to you soon! :argue:

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