Contact   Imprint   Advertising   Guidelines

best SUP for super light wind kiting

forum for kitesurfers


BernieTomic1
Medium Poster
Posts: 142
Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2016 8:42 am
Kiting since: 2015
Gear: Rebel 9/12
Neo 7/9
Cabrinha Secret weapon
F-ONE Trax HRD
Naish Orbit
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: best SUP for super light wind kiting

Postby BernieTomic1 » Sun Dec 10, 2017 10:10 pm

A twintip is the standard kiteboard, with 4 fins, each located in one corner of the board, meaning it will go port and starboard just as well, as opposed to a directional windsurfboard, surfboard or SUP, which in principle has to be turned.

User avatar
edt
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 4999
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2010 6:27 am
Kiting since: 2010
Local Beach: ford lake Michigan
Gear: slingshot liquid force wainman pansh naish north cwb burton

Re: best SUP for super light wind kiting

Postby edt » Mon Dec 11, 2017 12:46 am

Ittiandro, well 6 months is such a long time to wait. Even if you get instructions later, I still think it's worth it to buy the beginner instructions from Progression:

http://www.progression.me/player/collections/1

I have no affiliation from them, they are just great instructional videos. They used to come on a DVD now you buy to watch them online. Well worth it, from beginner to advanced, they all are worth watching.

Don't forget to snow kite. A lot of people learn on snow first (using skis or snowboard, whichever you like best) and like I said before, kite control is the most important thing to learn.



It's quite possible you will snow kite just this one season and then never do it again but it's time well put in, because learning how to control the kite is the most important thing. For a beginner, you want to buy a regular water kite (I don't use any snow kites on the snow only water kites), and that works absolutely fine on the snow. You don't want to buy a dedicated snow kite when you are just starting out.

We just had our first nice dump of snow of the season, so I was out on the snow today, hope it stays cold, the winter is great for kiteboarding!

salvino
Frequent Poster
Posts: 260
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2007 1:16 pm
Kiting since: 0
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: buffalo, ny

Re: best SUP for super light wind kiting

Postby salvino » Mon Dec 11, 2017 2:05 am

EDT,
Where is vid from?

User avatar
edt
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 4999
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2010 6:27 am
Kiting since: 2010
Local Beach: ford lake Michigan
Gear: slingshot liquid force wainman pansh naish north cwb burton

Re: best SUP for super light wind kiting

Postby edt » Mon Dec 11, 2017 2:13 am

salvino wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2017 2:05 am
EDT,
Where is vid from?
youtube mix, I won't list the various clips, just too many but they include those nutters out west from skyline, lots of russians, frenchies, and the big race is of course the norwegians at ragnorak.

Bletti
Frequent Poster
Posts: 364
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2015 9:13 am
Kiting since: 2000
Gear: Slingshot Rally 10m
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: best SUP for super light wind kiting

Postby Bletti » Mon Dec 11, 2017 3:51 am

The best sup for kiting would be one with a foil on the bottom :)

User avatar
edt
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 4999
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2010 6:27 am
Kiting since: 2010
Local Beach: ford lake Michigan
Gear: slingshot liquid force wainman pansh naish north cwb burton

Re: best SUP for super light wind kiting

Postby edt » Mon Dec 11, 2017 3:57 am

There's shallow spots, seaweed stuff like that. Of course, now that I foil I think every SUP should have a mounting plate to put a foil on it but you can't always use it.

User avatar
gmb13
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1273
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2007 10:19 am
Kiting since: 1999
Local Beach: Flag Beach, Fuerteventura
Style: Everything
Gear: Ozone, Axis, Moses, Zeeko, Firewire, SBS
Brand Affiliation: Foiling Basics, The Boardroom Fuerteventura, Ozone, Axiskiteboarding,Schwerelosigkite, Triggernaut,
Location: Fuerteventura
Contact:

Re: best SUP for super light wind kiting

Postby gmb13 » Mon Dec 11, 2017 12:36 pm

Bletti wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2017 3:51 am
The best sup for kiting would be one with a foil on the bottom :)
Exactly :-)

phpBB [video]


--Gunnar

Matteo V
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 557
Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2017 3:42 pm
Kiting since: 2008
Local Beach: US, Iowa/Nebraska/Kansas/Utah/Oregon Coast
Favorite Beaches: Ft. Stevens, North coast of Oregon
Style: Just like school in summertime
Gear: Delta Kites and LF Kitefish QuadMod
Snowboard (Cambered and Rockered)
Foil kites on the snow
Brand Affiliation: NONE F--- the corporate world

Re: best SUP for super light wind kiting

Postby Matteo V » Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:56 am

Ittiandro wrote:
Sat Dec 09, 2017 10:54 pm

Thanks for your advice and you frank speaking.
Kite Supping (if feasible) would be for me an enjoyable alternative to windsurfing, while still giving me the opportunity of being out in the open, exploring the surroundings and enjoying the freedom of unconfined spaces...

It would help me in my choice if you could tell me more specifically why you have been turned away from SUP kiting. Just curious.
It is good you are here asking these questions and you are getting some great advice. Please keep us updated when you finally get a chance to SUPkite. I am pretty sure that you will see the light on SUPkiting as I have.

To your statement above, you need to reverse it. It should read "windsurfing would be an enjoyable alternative to SUPkiting", because that is the reality. The short of it is that a windsurfing sail is a manageable piece of equipment that stays with you on the board and can be hoisted into position at any wind speed - including 0knots. And your windsurfing sail still works when the wind or apparent wind goes to 1knot.

A kite does not work at 1knot. And it is 17-30meters away from you when it is stuck on the water trying to relaunch. Thus you do not have a chance to just grab it and throw it up into the air and get going again like you do with a windsurfing rig. On hardpack snow my minimum wind speed to get upwind is somewhere around 3knots - walking speed (4-5knots to relaunch an inflatable, but I can launch a foil in 3-4 knots by walking a bit and setting up a hot launch). On water I have the same required wind to launch, but it is relative wind. Given that, in the water you drift with the surface current at some speed down wind, you negate some of the wind ground speed on a non flowing body of water. So if the surface current is 1knot, and the pull of the kite is adding another knot to your downwind velocity, you are losing at least 2 knots of wind in 5 knots and you cannot relaunch. I can write more about a kite in light winds, but what you need to conceptualize is that kiting is complicated - WAY MORE COMPLICATED - at low wind speeds than windsurfing is.

I bought into the idea of kiting in light winds and windsurfing in high winds at first. But it actually works out this way.

Widsurfing works in low (1knot-10knots) great if you want to displacement sail and not plane. Windsurfing works in 6oknots of wind if you have a small enough sail.

Kitesurfing only works in low kite winds (5knots for pros with huge kites, 9 knots to 11knots for less skilled kiters). Kitesurfing tops out at around 30knots for the sane, and for me, at about 48knots using all my skill to stay alive on a 3.5m kite.

Windsurfing has the bigger range if you include displacement windsurfing (sailboarding) at the low end. And at the top end, windsurfing is just safer than kiting.


But for me the biggest benefit of light wind windsurfing is getting to go anywhere on the lake. I can go right up against shore line with a windsurfing sail. I can go into wind shadows so far that the wind actually reverses direction. Neither of these two scenarios are possible or smart to get into with a kite 17-30 meters away from you.

Kite for the roller-coaster ride, and freedom from having a sail in front of your face all the time. Windsurf for the skill, the accessibility of different locations where you could never launch a kite, and the freedom to go wherever you want on any lake in any wind. Just remember that proper gear, whether kiting or windsurfing is essential for safety, along with knowing the currents, tides, and wind characteristics of your chosen location.

And the best advice you have gotten here or NWkite is not mine. Rather, it is to take some lessons at an ideal location and learn a twin-tip. The advice of mine I would most like you to take is to get a trainer and learn to fly it so well you are dreaming of it in your sleep.

Ittiandro
Rare Poster
Posts: 19
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2017 2:45 am
Kiting since: 0
Gear: Not yet, will begin
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: best SUP for super light wind kiting

Postby Ittiandro » Tue Dec 19, 2017 7:29 pm

Matteo V wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:56 am

Kite for the roller-coaster ride, and freedom from having a sail in front of your face all the time. Windsurf for the skill, the accessibility of different locations where you could never launch a kite, and the freedom to go wherever you want on any lake in any wind. Just remember that proper gear, whether kiting or windsurfing is essential for safety, along with knowing the currents, tides, and wind characteristics of your chosen location.


[/quote]

Your reply gives me an important clue : my assumption was that kiting ( or SUP kiting ) would allow me to sail anywhere, or almost, like windsurfing , especially when winds are under 12 knts, i.e. too low for windsurfing. I thought that a kite would give me an extra edge of power in light winds, since it floats higher up in the air where winds are stronger. This is probably true, but I now see that the benefit of this additional power would probably be offset by other draw backs you mentioned, like a more limited accessibility of locations for kiting, hence less freedom to go anywhere one wants.

In fact, I always wondered why kiters seem all to congregate most of the time on small stretches of water close to the shore and rarely go out in the open ( at least on the lake where I usually go...)

Even though I am still strongly temped to try, I' ll give it some more thought, also because of the cost.

Thanks to you and the others for weighing in with your advice.

Ittiandro

User avatar
edt
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 4999
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2010 6:27 am
Kiting since: 2010
Local Beach: ford lake Michigan
Gear: slingshot liquid force wainman pansh naish north cwb burton

Re: best SUP for super light wind kiting

Postby edt » Tue Dec 19, 2017 7:46 pm

Ittiandro wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 7:29 pm


In fact, I always wondered why kiters seem all to congregate most of the time on small stretches of water close to the shore and rarely go out in the open ( at least on the lake where I usually go...)


Windsurfers rarely have gear failure and even then they can paddle back. In the last ten years, I have had lines snap, the spreader hook snap, the attachment point in my kite pull off, the bladder has burst, the attachment points on my harness have ripped off, the bridle has snapped, the canopy has torn, I have had the chicken loop wrap completely around the bar and had to full release, death loops with a line wrap around the wingtip, again a full release. When this sort of stuff happens you have to swim. If you are lucky you still have your kite and it's inflated but not always. That's why kiters don't like to go further away from shore than they can swim. Windsurfers often go much further from shore than they can swim back. A hydrofoil (either on a kite or a windsurfer) can point almost directly upwind even as close as 10 degrees. It's ridiculous you can go anywhere. A twin tip can point close hauled, but rarely more than 45 degrees. A SUP with a kite is not as good as twintip for cruising and can't point that far upwind.

If you are a windsurfer and don't want to boost, have zero desire to ride a twintip, aren't into wave riding, I mean, you know what you really want? You want to hydrofoil windsurf.



Hydrofoiling is not just for kites and surfing it's also for windsurfing. More and more manufacturers are coming out with a hydrofoil windsurf setup. Theirs is a little different from ours, they have a larger wing because they have more mass and a shorter mast because of the larger swing weight, and it's a little bit different in the mechanics of how you ride it, but the ability to go anywhere is exactly the same and maybe what you should do instead of getting a kite.

Hydrofoiling windsurfers have about the same low end as kites. 8 knots wind on a 6m sail or even lower as you get better at hydrofoiling. Windsurfing is not my thing but at the same time I learned to hydrofoil on my kite, a local instructor was learning how to foil on his windsurfer. It's revolutionary for light wind conditions on the windsurfer.

When I'm kiteboarding on my twintip in 20 knot wind I usually have my 15 meter kite up. When the wind drops down to 10 knots, I get on my hydrofoil and switch to my 10 meter kite. Below 10 knots down to 8 knots or below I like to use my foil kite on my hydrofoil because it stays in the air better than a tube kite. Below 8 knots it's more about how steady the wind than how strong it is, because I hate relaunching in that light wind. For windsurfing it's much the same. In light wind conditions on your windsurfer you will be on a big 8.4m sail but as the wind drops you will want to put your hydrofoil on and then also drop your sail down to a 6m or smaller sail because hydrofoils have so little drag.


Return to “Kitesurfing”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot] and 12 guests

cron