Pulleys on kites

[Peter_Frank]

I’ve tried a shit ton of kites, my favorite drifting kites have pulleys, usually faster turning kites have had pulleys

I love a good pulley-less Kite, but for me kites with pulleys do it better

Sure every once in a while I have to rinse them out in a cup of water and add silicone spray...oh well

When I was a beginner I had to wash the pulleys every session cause I was constantly getting kites wet and then going back to the sand they would get stuck with sand in them

Now I rarely get them wet so it’s once in a lie moon I wash the pulley out and lubricate it

So true, well said

Peter

[alford]

Interesting topic.

I had Rallys until recently which certainly have high bar pressure but I've always liked the direct feel you get from kites without pulleys (which I first experienced with a pulley-less Cabrinha Contra).

I now have Ozone Enduro V2's which have no pulleys. They have light bar pressure and also a huge wind range and you can instantly feel exactly what the kite is doing without the slight delay and sometimes slightly spongy feeling that pulleyed kites can have. I suspect that Ozone are doing something clever with their bridle design.

I will never go back to pulleyed kites.

iriejohn, great to hear you like your new enduros, what sizes have had a chance to try so far?

[iriejohn]

Have used 6/8/12. Not used the 10 yet, mostly used the 8 - it's been very windy and relatively warm here the last few weeks. Canopies are rock solid and I've used a surprisingly small amount of trim. Am pleasantly surprised by the stability and wind range of these 3 strut kites. Lighter bar pressure that what I'm used to but quickly adapted to. Really nice on a wave* because you can sheet out and the kite just sits there until you repower.

* max 5 ft so far.

[Faxie]

I’ve tried a shit ton of kites, my favorite drifting kites have pulleys, usually faster turning kites have had pulleys

I love a good pulley-less Kite, but for me kites with pulleys do it better

Sure every once in a while I have to rinse them out in a cup of water and add silicone spray...oh well

When I was a beginner I had to wash the pulleys every session cause I was constantly getting kites wet and then going back to the sand they would get stuck with sand in them

Now I rarely get them wet so it’s once in a lie moon I wash the pulley out and lubricate it

I've had exactly the opposite experience...

[mr_daruman]

It seems that most riders who use a short bridle pulley-less kite usually wont go back to pulleys. I wonder if the opposite is true?
After riding a pulley-less bridle kite, does one really think"oh man I really need those 6 pulleys..." ???

If they are so superior, we might as well all have FOIL kites, since they jump higher, go upwind like crazy, have more floaty jumps, low end, and depower than everything else....And once your good youl never drop the kite anyways.
I think we dont all have foil kites because, well, they feel weird, dont work well some conditions, are a pain to maintain etc... just like pulleys.

By the way check again your pulleys, usually people just give a quick look and never even notice that they are not even spinning correctly and stuck.

[Kamikuza]

It seems that most riders who use a short bridle pulley-less kite usually wont go back to pulleys. I wonder if the opposite is true?
After riding a pulley-less bridle kite, does one really think"oh man I really need those 6 pulleys..." ???

If they are so superior, we might as well all have FOIL kites, since they jump higher, go upwind like crazy, have more floaty jumps, low end, and depower than everything else....And once your good youl never drop the kite anyways.
I think we dont all have foil kites because, well, they feel weird, dont work well some conditions, are a pain to maintain etc... just like pulleys.

By the way check again your pulleys, usually people just give a quick look and never even notice that they are not even spinning correctly and stuck.

Yes. But I don't think "I need the pulleys", I just think "I prefer the way those other kites work". I'm happy to compromise a bit of responsiveness for better "feel".

I think this the same issue as "long" bridle lines -- more fashion than function, people going for what the pros use.

Check my pulleys on a semi regular basis. My old Cab ones are proving to be astoundingly resilient...I've stared using them on a Flysurfer now too

[alexeyga]

I had a quiver of C4-s a while back, these were really nice kites in first generations with an obvious con being a limited wind range. There were some sessions where I was constantly switching between 15m and 12m while my buddies were on 13-12m "regular" bow-kites all along without any hassle.

Then Ozone went south with these and I was looking to haul less kites - so I switched to something more mainstream with pulleys, went over different brands and models - and to be perfectly honest - I find these "saggy felling" and "lack of crispness" arguments to be somewhat of a horse piss.

My most used kite nowadays has 6 pulleys - please ask me if I'm lacking anything in terms of "direct feeling" and I'll be happy to report on how I know exactly when, where, how and what my kite is doing. My other kites have 4 pulleys each and I would make exactly the same comment about either.

I do admit that sand in these pulleys is a nuisance - but there's a price to pay for everything and this certainly isn't a deal breaker. I am also very curious about Enduro-s and planing to test some when such occasion arises.

[marlboroughman]

I don't like pulleys because:

I don't like high bar pressure
I don't have use for pivotal turning kites

Practical pulley issues are secondary to me

For jumping I like the kites that don't fly way up wind. I like to send the kite just from 1 to just behind 12 for a jump so I am ready for looping or anything else from close to 12 position. For loops - axially turning kite, no questions except maybe to what degree.

For onshore wave, I like kites that sit back in the window and create smooth power in the turn. The kite gives me an extra burst of speed going down low energy wave and when I go straight downwind I want the kite that operates at small angles left and right. The kites designed for Hawaii that goes way the hell to one side and then the other via dead turn have no use in onshore.

No pulleys period.

[jumptheshark]

I find that confusing!

Thought in "general" pulleys will both decrease bar pressure and make for more axial turning.

Axial and pivot seem to mean different things to different people. There seems to be confusion on what pulleys do for bar pressure too. Most are saying pulleys make for less, yet you're say it makes for more.

Pivotal turn: as in around a pivot point like basketball player's pivot foot... turns around a wingtip and generates power, like a C kite. i.e. powerful loops

Axial turning: turns on its axis, as in rotates around the centre of the kite, like a rally and most flatter bridled kites. They produce less pull in the loop, but produce loads when flying straight.

Aren't most wave designed kites with thinner leading edges designed to sit forward to be better for onshore winds/waves? To better get DTL as well as back upwind.

The deeper sitting wave kites like wainman hawaii and first generations of BWS are the ones with fat LE and deep profiles that were more at home in the type of side on to side off conditions of the rare but really great wave spots.

BWS evolved to smaller LE to improve onshore wave/wind performance.

Maybe its just me, but my understanding seems almost opposite to what your post is saying ?!

I think I remember you liking switch nitro, which is not really a wave kite at all. Not sure which kites you are speaking of for waves, but I have followed wave kite progression and they were all deep little balls at the beginning and have evolved to sit more and more toward the edge but keep their original capacity to drift. All that evolution has been geared toward making them better for direction onshore winds. Or am I missing something?

[marlboroughman]

I find that confusing!

Thought in "general" pulleys will both decrease bar pressure and make for more axial turning.

You got it completely wrong. Ckites turn axially via wings twisting and turning like rudders see the video posted here showing set bridle allowing the wing to twist. Five line kites are even better at turning axially.

Maybe its just me, but my understanding seems almost opposite to what your post is saying ?!

I ride Element in waves and yes you have everything opposite. If I was riding in Hawaii I would like upwind flying dead turning kite. First to get me back home and on the way out to send the kite the other way before I hit the peak and forget about it from that point on. In onshore conditions wind and waves coming from the same direction opposite is needed.