Contact   Imprint   Advertising   Guidelines

dynamic differences with seat and waist harness

forum for kitesurfers


TomW
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 2426
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2005 6:43 pm
Kiting since: 2001
Local Beach: Vejbystrand, Habo Ljung, Lomma
Gear: TW Surfboards 5-0
TW Surfboards hydrofoil board 135
Moses Fluente 548/550/590/330/325
North Mono 7, 9, 12
Ozone Reo 5
Ozone Hyperlink 9UL
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Sweden

Re: dynamic differences with seat and waist harness

Postby TomW » Wed Jun 27, 2018 7:10 pm

I used a seat harness for 10 years kiting. A old mystic with fixed hook then a dynamic slider then a homemade rope slider.
I did notice that my hips and lower spinal vertebrae were locked. This resulted in several herniated disks further up my back while bending over with the harness on. My observation was my hips were locked and I over stressed back further up.
So I changed to a Ride Engine for 2 years. There's much more freedom of hip and leg movement which is beneficial.
Then started Hydrofoiling. Used the RE a lot, then tried a Dakine Fusion seat. Way too big and bulky.
Sold it.
Bought a Dakine surf shorts harness, 2017 with Option spreader. The spreader bar is a POS and failed at the clip side, but really like the shorts. much more freedom of movement. Ordered the 2018 Option spreader bar with new attachment. Waiting for it.
Back to the RE harness with rope spreader, which is overall the best.
The Dakine shorts are light, compact and minimalist. The don't look so dorky and offer a lot of freedom of movement for a seat harness.

User avatar
kjorn
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 662
Joined: Tue Feb 11, 2003 10:42 am
Kiting since: 0
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: uk
Contact:

Re: dynamic differences with seat and waist harness

Postby kjorn » Wed Jun 27, 2018 7:45 pm

I prefer seat. I don't unhook.

I hate how with a waist harness the pull of the kite goes through your lower back into your legs then to the board. Switching to a seat harness gave my back a rest.

borist
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 528
Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 12:30 am
Kiting since: 0
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: San Diego, CA

Re: dynamic differences with seat and waist harness

Postby borist » Wed Jun 27, 2018 7:59 pm

TomW wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 7:10 pm
The Dakine shorts are light, compact and minimalist.
:thumb:
The don't look so dorky
:nono:
offer a lot of freedom of movement for a seat harness.
:thumb:

Have you tried Dakine Vega?

User avatar
jumptheshark
Frequent Poster
Posts: 236
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2017 6:36 pm
Kiting since: 0
Local Beach: Shhhhh
Favorite Beaches: Nude
Gear: The good stuff
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: dynamic differences with seat and waist harness

Postby jumptheshark » Wed Jun 27, 2018 8:24 pm

Dakine shorts are for when you have broken ribs.

User avatar
jumptheshark
Frequent Poster
Posts: 236
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2017 6:36 pm
Kiting since: 0
Local Beach: Shhhhh
Favorite Beaches: Nude
Gear: The good stuff
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: dynamic differences with seat and waist harness

Postby jumptheshark » Wed Jun 27, 2018 8:33 pm

In all seriousness, a seat allows a less competent core to kite with some intensity, or a competent one to crank. A waist suits those who Dont ride around so loaded up on their heel side edge all the time. Once you need some mobility you discover the downsides of a seat.

User avatar
CorradoWest
Rare Poster
Posts: 23
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2016 11:02 pm
Kiting since: 0
Local Beach: Central Coast, California
Favorite Beaches: X
Gear: Cabrinha/Naish
Brand Affiliation: None
Contact:

Re: dynamic differences with seat and waist harness

Postby CorradoWest » Wed Jun 27, 2018 9:12 pm

...in a nutshell, a waist harness can be tough on the ribs, a waist harness tough on the...um.. nuts.
I did find that when I switched to a seat harness I could throw more de-power.

SaltWaterDog
Medium Poster
Posts: 149
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2018 2:01 pm
Kiting since: 2013
Local Beach: Copenhagen, most of Denmark and northern Germany.
Style: Biting off more than I can usually chew.
Gear: XR5, Fusion 3.
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: dynamic differences with seat and waist harness

Postby SaltWaterDog » Thu Jun 28, 2018 10:59 am

The thing about waist harnesses is that fit is absolutely critical. I don’t consider any brand to be objectively the best when it comes to harnesses because fit can be so different from person to person. I use the brunotti smartshell because it mimicks a lot of the features of a hard shell (solid lumbar support and great distribution of load) but remains flexible because it doesn’t have that stiff backplate. I would never use a pure hard shell because that “locked in” feel so many rave about is not for me. It’s super uncomfortable feeling like my entire midsection is “locked in” and I have limited side-to-side movement. So a balance between even load distribution and maintaining flexibility is what I prioritise the highest. Really tough balance to get right but my current harness is the best option I’ve come across yet. I’ve got decent core strength because I’m tall and have a family history of back problems I’d like to avoid. I find my current harness (had it about 8 months) actually promotes core strength when I’m riding. The pronounced curve on the inside of the back really pushes that lower back curve while being comfortable. Haven’t found that with any other harness so far. But that’s just what works for my body. Seats can be super comfortable but there will always be a lack of mobility compared to a waist harness and riding position is no good for me. I don’t know if there’s anything more subjective than harness choice when it comes to kiting gear.
Last edited by SaltWaterDog on Thu Jun 28, 2018 1:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
jumptheshark
Frequent Poster
Posts: 236
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2017 6:36 pm
Kiting since: 0
Local Beach: Shhhhh
Favorite Beaches: Nude
Gear: The good stuff
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: dynamic differences with seat and waist harness

Postby jumptheshark » Thu Jun 28, 2018 1:40 pm

Fit is fit. Pretty imperative regardless of harness type.

The basic dynamic difference is that you "tend" to bend at the waist in a seat and you "tend" to stand more erect in a waist. You CAN stand up pretty straight in a seat if you concentrate on it and many riders bend in a waist, but that is technique and separate from the actual harness.

I've always thought it was kind of self explanatory. A seat is a seat. You sit in it. You can discuss bar throw, riding up, leg mobility, Toe side and all the very real differences, but in the end, you can pretty easily sum it up by saying the riding posture is a bit different between the two and that relates to how you kite.

For some its a choice dictated by what they like to do, for others it's not so much a choice and dictated by physical pain and comfort limitations when using a waist harness. It's great there is an option for those who cannot find comfort in the standard waist config.

When you read people advocating for one over the other, often the text of their post lacks the context of who they are and how they ride. I'd say the majority of kiters are low end intermediates. Like every other sport. It's totally appropriate for two people at the same level to make gear recommendations to one another, but its not really appropriate for an intermediate to make big generalizations about the down sides of gear that caters to riding above their level.

Racers are not on here asking which harness to go with. They all know already.

Its the guys who are searching for comfort that are in here debating, and the seem to bristle at the thought of gear that caters to the intermediate level.

The facts are that all the top level wave and tt riders have been using waist harnesses since the dawn of the sport. Seats have always been an alternative for people who cannot find comfort with a waist harness. A seat will limit aspects of kiting, but for most of the people who cannot find comfort in a waist harness, its a moot point. Getting out of pain while doing the sport is the priority and by and large they are not riding in a fashion that's going to be impeded much by a seat. None of the guys I have ever seen in seat harnesses are doing much toe side, or going rail to rail in the waves. Certainly, none of them unhook. They are comfy in a seat on their heel side edge and are happy to have less ab strain when jumping. What's wrong with acknowledging that they are not doing the types of things that would better suit them to a waist harness.
Last edited by jumptheshark on Thu Jun 28, 2018 1:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

matth
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1548
Joined: Wed Apr 03, 2013 1:18 pm
Kiting since: 2011
Local Beach: Revere, Nahant, Chapin, West Dennis, Hardings , Kalmus, First Encounter, Dog, yerril, Wing
Favorite Beaches: Wing, West Dennis, Kalmus, Chapin, Revere, Nahant, Dog, Horse Neck, Good Harbor, Yerrill
Style: Freeride
Gear: 7m Prodigy, 9.5m Prodigy, 12m Flite, 17m Flite. Crazyfly Raptor Pro Neon, King Gee,
Mako Duke.
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: dynamic differences with seat and waist harness

Postby matth » Thu Jun 28, 2018 1:46 pm

TomW wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 7:10 pm
I used a seat harness for 10 years kiting. A old mystic with fixed hook then a dynamic slider then a homemade rope slider.
I did notice that my hips and lower spinal vertebrae were locked. This resulted in several herniated disks further up my back while bending over with the harness on. My observation was my hips were locked and I over stressed back further up.
So I changed to a Ride Engine for 2 years. There's much more freedom of hip and leg movement which is beneficial.
Then started Hydrofoiling. Used the RE a lot, then tried a Dakine Fusion seat. Way too big and bulky.
Sold it.
Bought a Dakine surf shorts harness, 2017 with Option spreader. The spreader bar is a POS and failed at the clip side, but really like the shorts. much more freedom of movement. Ordered the 2018 Option spreader bar with new attachment. Waiting for it.
Back to the RE harness with rope spreader, which is overall the best.
The Dakine shorts are light, compact and minimalist. The don't look so dorky and offer a lot of freedom of movement for a seat harness.

lot's of local now use ION board short instead of Dakine. They are better built and have more support.

User avatar
alexeyga
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 887
Joined: Thu May 31, 2007 12:41 pm
Kiting since: 2007
Favorite Beaches: Ocean shore!
Style: Freeride dongling
Gear: No brand affiliation
Location: Montreal, Canada / NJ, USA

Re: dynamic differences with seat and waist harness

Postby alexeyga » Thu Jun 28, 2018 3:53 pm

My harness evolution:
1)when got into kiting - got a cheap waist of local classifieds. Obviously when I've got the the "omg! I can stand on the board" stage - started having back pain issues. Waist harnesses and riding in "penguin taking a dump"-stance do not mix well.
2)got an older windsurfing seat harness of local classifieds - solved my back issues - didn't really feel any difference in dynamics at the current progress level. Rode it for about a season.
3)got the Ocean Rodeo's Session 2 hybrid (waist + leg straps) harness to replace the above mentioned - quite used up by now seat. First thought on the first ride: "My legs are free!!!! Holly crap!!!!" Rode that for a couple of seasons.
4)During a south trip - had some skin rash issues with leg straps, so I removed them altogether and - had another liberating "My legs are free!!!! Holly crap!!!!" epiphany moment. Kept it strapless till harness started falling apart.
5)Have been riding pure waist harnesses ever since.

I'll start using booties on spots with perfectly clean and safe bottom waaaaay before I'll strap into another seat contraption.


Return to “Kitesurfing”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: bkkite, Mike101 and 25 guests

cron