Contact   Imprint   Advertising   Guidelines

Elbow Owee - Tendonitis/Tennis Elbow help...

forum for kitesurfers


User avatar
sid5150
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 540
Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2003 5:10 pm
Kiting since: 0
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Satellite Beach, FL

Elbow Owee - Tendonitis/Tennis Elbow help...

Postby sid5150 » Sat Apr 03, 2004 2:13 am

Hi guys!

Whilest tying on a shackle for a chum, I pulled mightily, in a mighty manner, on the rope. Unfortunately, my massive muscleature was too much for my powerful, but incredibly sexy, frame. The outside of my elbow hurt. A lot. !%$@@%# :cry:

The next week was full of wonderful wind - I couldn't bring myself to miss a session (There are only so many windy days in a lifetime!), and I really tore the *ss out of my elbonic tendons :( (So what, I'm sure doctors make up a lot of words too!).


It is a classic case of tendonitis (Tennis elbow). To cope, I'm:

* Resting my arm
* Eating a bowl of Motrin in the morning, with milk & a spoon
* Using a counterforce(?) band/brace
* Using a lot of Icy Hot(tm) - I smell like a walking candy cane

My question is: Is there anything else I can/should be doing to speed recovery? Has anyone found a way to go kiteboarding without aggravating their elbonic tendons?


Any help/advice/experience is greatly appreciated!

Sid sends

User avatar
kitefrog
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 503
Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2003 5:54 pm
Kiting since: 0
Local Beach: Lancing, UK
Gear: Lost Cause 130, LCB Skimboard, Airush flow sle 7m, DNA 9m, Vapor prototype 12m
Brand Affiliation: None
Contact:

Postby kitefrog » Sat Apr 03, 2004 9:03 am

THIS IS WHAT OFFSHORE WROTE ON BKSA:

Hello all,
every one seems to be complaining of "tennis elbow" type symptoms

what i have decied to do is write a bit on what it is, how to treat it, how to prevent it, who to see and maybe shoulder surgery (if i get time).

(sorry it was not done the other day)

it is meant as a guide and not to be exhaustative so don't grumble at me

tennis elbow- medical term Lateral epicondylitis, this means inflammation of the lateral epicondyle (which is the nobbly bit on the out side of your arm bone, above your elbow (Humerous). the reason this area of bone becomes a problem is that all the muscles that extend your wrist and fingers have a common origin from this segment of bone ,tendons are the extension of muscles that attach to bone, this means that this area of bone can be exposed to high degrees of stress.

the actual dysfunction(problem) may occur in 3 different areas :1/ the muscle tendon junction (MTJ), mid tendon, or the teno-osseous juntion (TOJ= the area the bone and tendon meet). the TOJ is the real problem area as there is a poor blood supply and it takes a long time to heal 8-10 weeks, whereas the MTJ may take 4-6 weeks (with the right treatment)

Recent research has shown that when actually studying the tendon and its attaachment the problem is not normally inflammation but one of degeneration, so the term tendiosis is better (degeneration of the tendon) occassionally the term tendionpathy may be used (means tendon problem). many doctors will still argue it is inflammatory but this is very rarely the case.

to explain why it is degenerative one must first understand what our body is doing- normally our body is constantly repairing tissue whilst we damage/wear tissue. this process is normally in balance, however add more things that wear tissue (such as kiting) then our body actually falls out of balance, and the rate of damage/wear exceeds the rate of repair.
this is shown in most cases of people complaining of these symptoms on here as they say they had a "massive session" or "3 days worth of kiting". this is excessive load for your tendon and will therefore causes pain. given rest this will normally settle.

this is commonly a factor in high level athletes who experiance recurrent injurys and is due to a combination of over training, poor diet, dehydration (common for me when kiting) or other health problems (Diabetes), lack of sleep etc.
with continued trainng at the right level your tendons will alter their structure to take the stress placed upon it- like muscle, this can however take longer and you must consider it as taking months not weeks. aslong as you have other things that don't effect this- poor diet, lack of sleep, other health problems, dehydration etc

alternatively you may experiance post exercise muscle soreness as a result of training (kiting) , think of plaaying football/going to the gym after not going for a while- you are often very sore for several days after with the second day being the worst. this pain may be very severe and cause problems with activity- i have found it difficult to cough due to abdominal soreness after having a kiting session for up to 5 days, the reason you suffer this is due to small microtears to muscles and is experianced in the
in .Muscle belly not the tendon.

Inflammatory phases problems will be acute so less than 2-3 months, pain will be worse in the morning after chemical irritants have accumlated in the tissue over night, activity will often be sore, but after a while the pain dies down after resting after exercise the pain will increase due to the chemical irritants associated with inflammation. inflammatory cases may present after a injury such as a crash when kiting with all the weight on the arms. at present the term has been changed but many doctors still call it lateral epicondylitis so don't get too boged down.

many other problems may mimic this condition so if you suffer with sympoms for a while then i would recommend seeing a very good physiotherapist either privately or on the NHS (whichever country) but like every one you may end up seeing a crap one. (problems mimicing this condition- neck problems may just cause arm pain, or vascular (blood supply) problems amongst others)

since most problems appear degenerative treatment differs from the inflammatory problems when you may take anti-inflammatories, rest, gentle exercise, ice etc.

so best treatment may involve tranverse friction massages to the tendon- ,this actually damages the tendon further but should cause the normal healing process to occur after. stretches to restore normal tissue flexibility, other arm exercises not involving the tendon,

but the best thing is a special exercise where instead of shortening the muscle under contraction you lengthen it.! example a bicep curl, as you pull the wieght up so your hand comes up to your shoulder the muscle shortens, as you lower the wieght the same muscle lengthens, so the principle of the exercises is to lengthen under contraction but not shorten the muscle, how do you do this??
well- you sit next to a table place your arm on it , palm down, with your wrist over the edge, hold a small wieght (tin of beans) , now use your other arm /hand to pull your wrist in to an extended position (bring the back of the hand up towards your arm) let go with your other hand and slowly lower the wieght so your wrist goes into flexion (bringing the palm towards the floor and forarm), now again use the other arm to lift the wieght back up (do not use the arm you are exercising) and repeat 15 times , 3 sets twice a day for 2-3 months and a chronic "tennis elbow" should resolve.
what does this exercise do? 2 theories! 1/ eccentric exercises really stress the muscle/tendon so may cause minor trauma leading to a normal healing pattern (like the massage), 2/ eccentric exercises stress the tendon/muscle causing an increase in tensile strength, an increase in muscle stress means the tendon takes less force as the muscle absorbs more,so problems don't develope. this principle has been shown to work with chronic tendoachilles dysfucntion (which also is degenerative not normally inflammatory)
cross training may help- going to the gym,swimming,climbing etc where you don't rely on this muscle for long lengths of time

what can you do with kiting- ensure good hydration,diet (vitamins/protein), sleep/rest, training, cross training, some people say glucosamine suplhate- this is a naturally occuring substance injoints and tissue fluid, it provides lubrication, without it heat or excessive forces may occur so tablets may increase the levels of this. no medical randomized controlled trials hav confirmed this, and people may get pain due to other causes not just reduced tissue fluid (also effected by hydration), the increase force thorugh the muscle as already stated may be due to shortening, muscle weakness

actual kiting -reduce tension/force needed to to turn the kite, fly hooked in , use the pig tails on your kite to make it turn quicker, use powerlock type bars, let the harness take the load, you may increase or decrease the thickness of your bar, turn your hands over palp up instead of down, hold your bar at the ends not in the middle (less force) use a longer bar (less force), don't fly in an over
stretched position or with your bar really close, if changing/upgrading kites buy some that require less force to turn.
changing your kiting style by not gripping the bar for dear life may help, treat it like you treat your tadger , with firm but yet soft grip(or like you hold a golf club)

reduce intensity/frequency of kiting- self explanatory


if problems occur after changing bar/kite then change back, slowly graduate the change from old bar/kite to new bar/kite, this allows the tissue to adapt.


sh*t i have missed loads but i will be here all day otherwise, keep trying to do this between patients! bad choice,
why should you believe me? because you just should , ok! the bloody server timed me out since it took so long, so i have just had to paste here.

there are loads of other bits that relate to this ,but i wanted to give an overview- hope it helps



-----------------
offshore? no really??

User avatar
kitepower
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 2723
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2002 1:00 am
Kiting since: 1991
Local Beach: Lennox Head
Style: Old Coot. strapped surfboard
Gear: Ozone, Axis and Delta Designs surfboards
Brand Affiliation: Ozone
Location: Australia

Re: Elbow Owee - Tendonitis/Tennis Elbow help...

Postby kitepower » Sat Apr 03, 2004 9:11 am

sid5150 wrote:Hi guys!

Whilest tying on a shackle for a chum, I pulled mightily, in a mighty manner, on the rope. Unfortunately, my massive muscleature was too much for my powerful, but incredibly sexy, frame. The outside of my elbow hurt. A lot. !%$@@%# :cry:

The next week was full of wonderful wind - I couldn't bring myself to miss a session (There are only so many windy days in a lifetime!), and I really tore the *ss out of my elbonic tendons :( (So what, I'm sure doctors make up a lot of words too!).


It is a classic case of tendonitis (Tennis elbow). To cope, I'm:

* Resting my arm
* Eating a bowl of Motrin in the morning, with milk & a spoon
* Using a counterforce(?) band/brace
* Using a lot of Icy Hot(tm) - I smell like a walking candy cane

My question is: Is there anything else I can/should be doing to speed recovery? Has anyone found a way to go kiteboarding without aggravating their elbonic tendons?


Any help/advice/experience is greatly appreciated!

Sid sends


Dr Kitepower prescribes
Less pulling of it, and
resist replying to every thread on kiteforum. :bye:

User avatar
ZenWind
Frequent Poster
Posts: 440
Joined: Sun Jan 05, 2003 1:00 am

Postby ZenWind » Sat Apr 03, 2004 9:22 am

If you have one of those forearm Velcro bands wear it all the time until the pain disappears. If you don't have one get one and wear it All The Time except when you sleep. It is important to wear it constantly because even small movements with you hand or wrist will continue to irritate the tendon. The good news is that usually that type of injury will heal pretty quickly if you wear the band All The Time. Even after you don't feel the pain anymore use the band when kiteboarding for at least a month after the pain stops. If you don't use the band you will keep irritating the tendon and I have heard it can then become chronic problem. Don't know your exact injury, but this method worked very well for me. The pain was completely gone in 2-3 weeks and has never returned. I delayed my healing process by not wearing the band all the time the first week. Once I left it on all the time, and then also kiteboarded with it on for a month, the problem was gone and has not returned.

User avatar
theflyingtinman
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1322
Joined: Mon Feb 10, 2003 11:45 pm
Kiting since: 0
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: California

Postby theflyingtinman » Sat Apr 03, 2004 10:02 am

kitefrog wrote:THIS IS WHAT OFFSHORE WROTE ON BKSA:


... treat it like you treat your tadger , with firm but yet soft
grip(or like you hold a golf club)
...


If you hold it like that you'll never get a hole-in-one :wink:

Obsessed
Rare Poster
Posts: 28
Joined: Sat Mar 29, 2003 7:03 pm
Kiting since: 0
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Miami Beach

Postby Obsessed » Sun Apr 04, 2004 12:30 am

I had nasty tendonitis until I changed to a Cabrinha Powerlock Bar. I also customized the bar by cutting down the chicken loop line length about 3 inches to a total of about 7. This is a perfect amount of depower length. Any more and you are just making the back lines slacker and slacker when you sheet out and the kite won't turn. It also leaves the bar in a very comfortable height when at the top stopper. Now I ride with the bar either in the fully powered locked position or with the bar all the way up at the top stopper which depowers it about 50 percent. This way I am riding with no pressure on my arms and I am steering with one hand - matter of fact a couple of fingers. I only grab the bar with two hands when doing a trick or transitioning.

Try it, it will immediately take the pressure off of your tendons.

kiteboardkorea
Medium Poster
Posts: 127
Joined: Thu May 08, 2003 7:03 am
Kiting since: 0
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Korea

get well and then change to better kites

Postby kiteboardkorea » Sun Apr 04, 2004 12:37 am

I use to suffer from tennis elbow from kiting,

especially in low winds of when you are pulling big Air and the pressure to redirect the kite on the back line mid air caused the problem as well.

Spent a few months doing all the exercises in the 2 post above in our off season here and then changed to a low bar pressure kites. Now using the new Multi Wac kites and I never get tennis elbow as I can adjust the bar pressure,. Should be able to do the same on PL Kites as well.

Drew

User avatar
sid5150
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 540
Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2003 5:10 pm
Kiting since: 0
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Satellite Beach, FL

Postby sid5150 » Sun Apr 04, 2004 3:37 am

Thanx everybody!!! What a great thread full of info!

Kitefrog - That is some great info , and really explains a lot (inflamation vs. degeneration). I'll give the exercises a shot, and I am VERY guity of going out & getting dehydrated. Apparently it is a bigger deal than I had thought! I'm also going to rely on my bigger bar & give the 'palms up' deal a try - Thanx for the advice!!!

Kitepower - When you are as incredibly sexy as I, you find it really hard to keep your hands off of yourself. Being this good-looking ain't easy! :wink:

ZenWind - I have the Counterforce band thingee, but I've been wearing it intermittently (And not while kiteboarding). As per your advice, it is going to be All The Time (I know this is a dumb question, but I'm a dumb person :( - Does All The Time include sleeping? I'm assuming so...)

Obsessed - I had recently cut down my chicken loop lines to 6"-8" in order to steer the kite easilt while straightening out & stacking my joints. Not only does it let you carve like Jack the Ripper, but you're right, it has taken a lot of stess off of my arms.

kiteboardkorea - The PLs have ver little in the way of bar pressure, but you can extend the very bottom of their range by working the bar. I think that got me in some trouble. I gotta quit being a wuss and use the bigger size next time. :D


Thanx again everyone! I appreciate your help & advice!

Sid sends

User avatar
ZenWind
Frequent Poster
Posts: 440
Joined: Sun Jan 05, 2003 1:00 am

Postby ZenWind » Sun Apr 04, 2004 5:48 am

Does All The Time include sleeping? I'm assuming so...)


No. I mentioned the following in my original reply post to you
"All The Time except when you sleep".


It is extremely important that you wear the forearm band while you are kiteboarding though, as that is the primary cause of the strain.

User avatar
sid5150
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 540
Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2003 5:10 pm
Kiting since: 0
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Satellite Beach, FL

Postby sid5150 » Mon Apr 05, 2004 3:06 am

Sorry Zen,

I read your post a few times, and it took me a couple of times to read that statement. I think this stems from:

* I'm not the brightest crayon in the box

* I'm a keen product of our publick edukayshun system

* You gots to give your Return key some love from time to time


I bought a second band - One that will spend most of its life in seawater :D . I gave it a try today (Though it was a terrible 'session', if you could even call it that - I have a lot to reflect on). I did a lot of things that should have left my elbow SCREAMING. But it feels fine instead! So sweet.

I also drank a sh!tload of water to ward off dehydration. As an added benefit, my wetsuit was a LOT warmer today. :greenlaugh:


I really appreciate the fantastic advice. Much Better - I'll 'test' it again tomorrow!

Sid sends

P.S. Any ideas on how to fix the funny tan line the band leaves? :wink:


Return to “Kitesurfing”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Exabot [Bot], Google Feedfetcher, jannik, KiteDR, Lazy kiter and 21 guests