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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2002 5:17 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2001 1:00 am
Posts: 2025
Location: Mexico City, Mexico.
Guys,
The world doesn´t have to be black and white, YES..., you are actually allowed to like both inflatables and foils(shhhh, It´s a secret don´t tell anyone). I know quite a lot of people who use both. I believe that for higher winds 25+ knots, maybe inflatables are better because they are more stable in those winds, and the relaunch doesn´t have to be in the middle of the window, like foils. Then again, I have only been out in those winds once with my warrior 9.3 and i could still handle it with a little 138cm board.
Kite design will advance for a long time, but what we have right now, works very well already. Don´t say something doesn´t work before you try it, open your minds guys, Royce, have you tried flysurfer foils? I don´t like inlfatables that much(That´s my opinion and preference), but 2 weeks ago I was with Mauricio Toscano in Valle de Bravo Mexico, and he had a Type 4.1 14-15 meter RRD kite, and I was really impressed how high he could jump on the beach(5meters), and he was able to go out and sort of stay upwind in no wind(6-10 knots), the kite is well made, handled well, nice bar.
Anyway, guys, ride what you like and have fun,
Andres


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2002 9:47 am 
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Joined: Mon Aug 12, 2002 1:00 am
Posts: 2374
Location: AUCKLAND, NEW ZEALAND
Yeah both types of kites seem to have their place in kitesurfing.

The inflatables are getting faster at turning and the foils now have great depower.

I still have an oldschool kite called a C Quad which gives great constant pull but not much lift despite being quite fast.

The new kites are far better and I wouldn't be surprised if eventually foils and inflatables have identicial characteristics which will make the choice easier for all of us.

Currently I prefer inflatables in all conditions except real light winds or anything terribly gusty (I use high AR inflatbles which are more prone to overflying in gusts and hindenburging in lulls than low AR kites).

Remember however that the new breed of foils like the Flysurfer and Boom kites are very hard to get in NZ so that sorta takes that option out of the equation for me...

I agree with the blade being a great lifting kite. These things really do pull HARRRRD when flown at speed. These kites still I believe have great potential in light winds....

Flexifoil have a depower system for these kites now that can be fitted to existing blades and used on a bar...

Interested to see how this works. Has anyone tried it for kitesurfing Go hard with whatever you have :smile:

BLOWN AWAY :smile:


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2002 8:38 am 
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Joined: Wed Oct 02, 2002 1:00 am
Posts: 1
Location: Barcelona
Hi, I live in Barcelona - Spain.

Favourite Spot : Malgrat de Mar
Kites: Naish Aero 12 - F-One Starter 7
Board: Directional 187 cm
Harness: Neilpryde Race
Others: Shock absorber Bump & Jump , Helmet Boreal


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2002 12:14 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jun 12, 2002 1:00 am
Posts: 724
Location: Florida--JACKSONVILLE
ROYCE...Don't post so harshly!!! There is this guy on another group who post as Steve McCormic. He is a brilliant man and I am sure he has everyone's best interest at heart. But he seemed to have ruined his rep because of his hostile posting. Lots of what you said was true but it tends to come across as flames. Don't end up like Steve. He is the brunt of jokes now, and his credibility has been lost. If you are in the business, you don't want to offend future customers. :smile: Phil
(just my opinion)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2002 12:23 pm 
so if foils are so great, why jojo working to produce a LEI kite? who is it thats behind the Storm kites? isnt it a foil based company? and if LEI's are so great, why does slingshot also make foils? i think several replies here are pretty far out their. being so biased towards one kind is indication to me that you dont try both much. either work and both have ideal uses. crazy to even start a thread these days with topic of foil or LEI.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2002 3:04 pm 
Foil Paranoia!

Check out http://www.winddancing.com

I'll bet these guys feel the LEI manufactureres will be after them soon!

I wish I had foils when I lug my inflatables around. For travelling about, I think a nice packed down foil would be best.

But the local spot requires a side launch and assistance from other kiters. Because everybody there flies LEI, I doubt I could safely get a foil, becasue there would be too many people who didn't know what to do on launch and land.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2002 4:00 pm 
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Joined: Mon Sep 09, 2002 1:00 am
Posts: 358
Location: Perth, Australia
I think to a certain point a high AOA will be ineffiecniant. and making the jumps jerky and small. the higher the AOA will reduce the kites speed dramactically. resulting in a hard landing.

And about foils being not as good as LEI over 25 knots thats false. Ive heard from a reliable source that the G-arc 10m was out in 35 knots while the rest of the kites where not.

I think your wrong about foil design you see they been designing foil kites for 50 years or so but they only started designing kitesurfing foil kites the last 5 years. Its improve dramtically and a the foil design is limitless.

Yet the standard LEI design is exactly the same with minor improvements. I mean how far can they take that exact same design.... Rocket struts isn't gunna cut it SORRY.

Think again!!!

No flame just trying to straighten out the curving road.

Rod


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2002 4:35 pm 
I have not read all the posts (wow) yet i am interested in understanding what you all are talking about, Whats an AOA for that matter where can I go (don't get cute) to get definions? for all the foil/tube speak acronims?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2002 5:13 pm 
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Joined: Mon Sep 09, 2002 1:00 am
Posts: 358
Location: Perth, Australia
Im new to this aswell but AOA means Angle of Attack. All four line kites have deviations in angle of attack. think of the kite sitting depowered above your head. It sits with the kite going straight into the wind with the angle of attack looking like this "-" then you sheet right in pulling on the back lines changing the kites angle of attack to "/" which forces the kite to sit back into the window and try and pull upwards. of course the angle isnt this great and each kite varies slighty depending on design.

Think of a paper plane do you throw it towards the ground?.... NO

Do you throw it completely horizontal?.... No

You throw it diagoanlly to get maximum lift!!

same as a kite you throw it up and sheet in to make it fly diagonally.

Hope that makes sense.

Rod


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2002 5:32 pm 
You can have a nearly perfect shaped wing on a foil, but at the trade off of having to have a "dirty" (aerodynamically speaking) bridle. Is this trade off worth it compared to a LEI that has no bridle, but has turbulance behind the main tube. An Arc eliminates both of these negatives relative to turbulance, but it does not have a perfectly shaped wing. Which one wins?

Alan


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