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Which kite brand do you fly?
Naish 12%  12%  [ 92 ]
Flysurfer 8%  8%  [ 60 ]
North 10%  10%  [ 79 ]
Ocean Rodeo 4%  4%  [ 28 ]
Best 15%  15%  [ 117 ]
Peter Lynn 6%  6%  [ 44 ]
Slingshot 8%  8%  [ 60 ]
Cabrinha 11%  11%  [ 87 ]
RRD 1%  1%  [ 8 ]
Gaastra 1%  1%  [ 8 ]
Flexifoil 1%  1%  [ 6 ]
Wipika 3%  3%  [ 20 ]
F-one 2%  2%  [ 19 ]
Takoon 3%  3%  [ 27 ]
Globerider 3%  3%  [ 22 ]
Liquid Force 3%  3%  [ 20 ]
Monkey 1%  1%  [ 8 ]
Other 5%  5%  [ 38 ]
Totally mixed 4%  4%  [ 34 ]
Caution 2%  2%  [ 16 ]
Total votes : 793
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2004 9:42 pm 
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Okay so we can all argue about the margin of error and how only best people read this forum, but still... 400+ responses... Any person who's got a reasonable business sense would shit their pants if they saw the company that's only 6 months old leading this poll.

Maybe now we can see why the reaction from the rest of the industry was so quick and vicious, way back before Best had even shipped its first kite. They could see this happening 6 months before it did.

Now the only question is how long will the others take to react, because there is no way that there is sufficient growth in the sport to support status quo sales with Best sucking people away from the old companies. Not to mention kites haven't leapt ahead in performance like they had in previous years. Companies are starting to switch focus to relaunch technologies and systems like one-pump to keep kiters coming back for new stuff. But will these things that haven't been perfected (and could be copied eventually) really be enough to get people to ante up 3x as much money? and every year?

Also, consider this, I have many friends who kiteboard, and I do not know a single one who bought their kite through a retailer or without considerable (more than 30%) discount. How much longer can the industry continue the charade? Eventually everyone will know that only newbies pay retail. When sales start to dwindle, bro-deals will stop, and even more people will be left searching for a cheaper alternative.

There is a chance to save these companies and the shops before more people start filing bankruptcy... here's my plan to save the kite industry:

INDUSTRY:
Get over the idea that kiteboarding is going to be the next snowboarding, its not. Its too difficult, dangerous, expensive, and it requires giving up your life to chasing wind. People just can't do that with kids, jobs, etc. Remember you may live in some warm place where its windy everyday, and you can kite all year, you work at a company that promotes it even... but most people don't.

So now that you know there's not going to be that explosive growth you've been expecting, you can start planning for the future...

Wipika, Slingshot, Globerider, F-One & any other kiteboarding only companies:

DROP YOUR DISTRIBUTORS
Get rid of these guys, you don't need them. You have the most powerful advertising engine in the world at your fingertips, and its basically free - THE INTERNET! People know your brands and will follow them. If you sold your soul to your distributors with contracts, well then that sucks. Get out of them as soon as possible.

With your distributors gone you can control kite prices world wide, you can control inventory tighter. No more excess kites at the end of the year sitting in places all over the world. You have more to deal with, but you have way less waste. You can deliver kites direct to people who live in areas without distributors. You got your distributors because you thought you were going to some day be shipping thousands each month, but it never happened and its not going to.

Just sell direct to the shops, and give them a bigger margin with the money you're not sending to the distributor. With a bigger margin they can give huge deals at the end of the year sale when everyone who doesn't need the latest and greatest goes shopping. The deals need to be closer to 40% than the current 20% that people should get anyway when getting quivers and alike.

Naish, North, Gaastra, & anyone who's got a windsurfing division:

SPINOFF
You think you're fucked because your leashed to the distributor who does your windsurfing gear. Well can't you spin off another company like "Naish Kiteboarding" and let them sell direct or without a distributor?

Talk to your lawyers, they are smart, let them figure it out. Oh wait you hired your step brother as your lawyer and all he does is surf and smoke weed? Oh shit...

To all Companies:

CONSIDER MERGING!
Why are there 20 different companies on this list! There were so many Toby couldn't even fit them all! You guys are never going to thrive this way, there is just too many brands, too much overhead, not enough demand, and not enough differences between brands to justify them. You have all been around long enough to build up fans, they will follow you to merged companies. Imagine the best designers from several companies working together. Imagine a Splitstrut-KPO-Reflexing-Recon kite...

There is only a couple kite shops at the most near any kiteable spot, they can only carry 2-3 brands a piece... if you get the list of total companies down, you increase exposure for designs that may not have representation in a lot of areas.

...

Anyway, sorry for the novel... just a few ideas from an outsider. I don't really expect anyone to read this and go "Oh yeah! I never thought of that!" I'm sure they have all thought of it, but maybe they just aren't saying it. I'm just tired of all the bitching really. They all claim to be victims of the big evil company that sprung out of nowhere and started to takeover.

I really could give a shit if a few kite companies fold. They all have dream jobs, and dream jobs aren't deserved for anyone. But I do feel sorry for the shops and really want to see them survive this. The only way to keep the shops and get the rest of the kites as cheap as they should be is to get more efficient. These are just my ideas on how to do that.

...and if you read all of that, you got waaay too much time on your hands. :bye:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2004 10:04 pm 
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move to new thread.

history lesson.....


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2004 11:16 pm 
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Location: A Best owner; ex F-One, SS, North, Cab owner
Dax wrote:
Maybe now we can see why the reaction from the rest of the industry was so quick and vicious, way back before Best had even shipped its first kite. They could see this happening 6 months before it did.


Wow... that's a long ass post! Anyway I think you are giving them 18 months too much forsight... they will be in denial still for the next 12 months.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2004 2:12 pm 
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Location: Garmisch-Pa./Bavaria
kitesurfing as lifestyle has so many dimensions and you´re argueing in $$$ terms only. That´s the mistake in your concept.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2004 2:45 pm 
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Location: A Best owner; ex F-One, SS, North, Cab owner
Foxi wrote:
kitesurfing as lifestyle has so many dimensions and you´re argueing in $$$ terms only. That´s the mistake in your concept.


To each his own... the business aspect can be quite interesting... with Best making a huge splash... all you have to do is go back at some of the earliest posts (if 1/2002 is really that ancient) to see how many have tried to create a new brand and failed... and some has been like Wip and F-one... where are they now?

The fun factor... there's no debate. Lifestyle... well... only if you are young or single...


Last edited by vietkiter on Thu Jul 22, 2004 10:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Money
PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2004 8:33 pm 
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I agree completely with Dax. When you go into a shop and see a kite retailing for over £1000 you need to do a step back. I bought my last five kites on the internet from foreign importers and have so far been lucky with having kites without problems but one defective kite and I'll have lost the money I thought I was savings. When you go into a shop and see a flimsy bit of tube and nylon and someone is asking 1000 pounds. sorry I just won't pay that becuase they are blatantly not worth that


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2004 7:42 am 
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actually most of the time it is +-3% error, but that doesn't not correlate directy to the statistics at hand. the +- refers to distribution curves and the possiblity that the data doesn't fit the total population(ie surveying 300 random kiters you pick 300 that fly only best, obviously possible, and obviously not true for the entire population) that is what the margin of error refers to. It more or less is a correction factor for data that is out of the ordinary for the population. so in conclusion, you can't add or subtract 3% from any of the individual data(if i were to do the math on the margin of error for ~440 polled sample is would be around 4-5%) its just where those percentages fall in relation to the true total population percentages. I love my statistics :lol: kinda hard to explain but easy to show in person i guess. yet another reason i am not a teacher. buy me a beer and i will be more than happy to talk it over though:party:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2004 8:01 am 
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Look at the stats 400+ people voted only 61 were best that also tells you there are 61 people on here maybe waiting for there Best kites to arrive.

And all the rest of the people are out kiteing and don't have time to vote because there using the other brands.
That was said as a joke i just could not resist :D


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2004 5:06 pm 
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maybe if they were waiting for boards, but kites are shiping next day with no back orders, delivery to coastal europe is typically 5-6 days, central europe a day or two longer.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2004 5:08 pm 
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vietkiter wrote:
I am very tempted to put on my statician hat...


My statistician hat is eerily similar to a folded paper napkin, nonethless...
Drawing any conclusions from this poll with respect to the general kiting population is completely pointless. The main flaw is that the subjects are self selected. If you want a sample that is representative of the kiting population you (as in the pollster) have to *randomly* select the participants.

The poll shows which brand people support that have internet access, spare time, read kiteforum and decide to participate in a brand poll. Not much else really.

Eraser wrote:
Just something I want to let go off my chest: everyone keeps dissing Best kites ...


Keeping with statistics... could somebody sample a few threads to see if there is more dissing Best, bitching about dissing or dissing those that prefer any brand other than Best?

Dax wrote:
But will these things that haven't been perfected (and could be copied eventually) really be enough to get people to ante up 3x as much money? ...


Moving on to algebra. You write much. And some of it makes sense. Try keeping the numbers straight though. It will help support your point. Best offers cheap kites. The quiver deal is even cheaper. Many if not all dealers will cut you a 15-20% deal for a quiver purchase. The difference is nowhere near 3x, it's not 2x either. Here's an example: Nemesis 10, 12, 16. The quiver deal is $1648. Vegas 10, 12, 16. Retail $3220 (that's 2x) with quiver discount of 20%: $2576. That's 1.6x. The Nemesis 16 retailing at $850, Vegas 16 retailing at $1160, that's 1.4x. Of course you may still be able to get a deal on that single kite from your dealer.

R


Last edited by R! on Fri Jul 23, 2004 5:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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