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PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2003 10:18 pm 
Why don't any of the top 50 pro riders use Ram airs?


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2003 11:00 pm 
Pssst...There will be some in the 2003 season that's for sure. :lol:


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2003 1:13 am 
Foils were not up to par for jumping ability with tubes since the AR5 showed up. Shortly after comps turned into all freestyle events with no heats run when the tubes couldn't get off the ground. To compete the top riders went to tube makers for sponsorship. The last top rider I can think of to make the switch was Kane Harthill. He switched sometime in 2001. If the foils have caught up (Gorilla, Psycho ?) we might see them in comps again, but the brands will have an uphill battle to attract great talent and gain the acceptance of judges to challenge the entrenched tube as a competition kite.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2003 3:15 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2002 1:00 am
Posts: 626
AHHH. The perfect opportunity to stir up this debate again......To each his own, as for the riders go where the money is... I would say that the top 25 or 30 guys on tour get some cash for their travels and contests but not too much and not many more make any money at all. AS for getting dollars to ride on a particular brand or type of kite... If you ask almost every sponsored rider what he honestly thinks is the best kite they will tell you the kite they have put in the most development or time into so I would say NONONONONONO. The money is not the reason there are no foils on the tour at all! Not just the top 50. Most sponsored riders get free gear to sell and use through the season. The top few make OK money and its getting smaller every year. Therefore it would not take very much at all to get good riders onto Foils for the contests. Ask F-one why there are no foils on the tour? Ask PeterLYNN or any of the Foil kite manufacturers. I know amazing kiters who will not be doing the tour this year because they cannot get any sponsorship. It would take a very small capital outlay by any foil company to pick up these guys. If it was that big of an advantage there would be many because every kite company happilly offers competitive riders result incentive.
Of course just my opinion but at the contest in CAbarette last year ( The biggest kite contest in the history of kite contests) ther were 0 Foils. And something else interesting was there were no foils anywhere in Cabarette for the 2 weeks I was there. I don't mean to piss off all the foil guys out there and I am sure there will be a few. Bring it on . let me know what you think and I don't want to hear ....just wait one day....

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Royce on 2003-01-11 15:17 ]</font>


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2003 7:08 pm 
F-One,and Slingshot make foils as well as tubes, yet their riders choose to use the tubes.
What does that tell you?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2003 7:26 pm 
The aerodynamic properties of inflatables far surpass ram airs.

Jumping, turning, upwind ability, stability, stability in gusts, hang-time, and efficiency are ALL superior on inflatables.

Regardless of the dollars that a ram company might offer to a pro rider, a pro in the top 50 will always choose an inflatable because the performance is so much better. Competition is extremely tough at this level, a pro would be restricting him/herself and COMPLETELY forgoing any chance of rising in the top 50 by using a ram air.

Ram companies put spin out about their kites being more aerodynamic etc etc... this is simply not the case, particularly next to the 2003 inflatables.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2003 7:28 pm 
PS: It's not just the top 50. To my knowledge, nobody in the top 100 uses a ram air.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2003 7:53 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2001 1:00 am
Posts: 2026
Location: Mexico City, Mexico.
Ok foil haters, just a few facts: f-one and slingshot foils are not the best foils out there for water use, sligshot foils are open celled. Many riders use f-one foils on the snow very succesfuly(ever heard of Guillaume Chastagnol?). Oh, and foils dominate on the snow and on land.
There are riders using foils on the pro tour, and one has achieved decent results, his name is Marcus Damsell and he is sponsored by flysurfer.de and pirates kiteboards and i don't know his other sponsors. Have you forgotten Peter Trow! He got first on many tour stops and is thought of as one of the best kitesurfers in waves in the world, he is sponsored by flexifoil and stretch boards, and others. As you may know, i am a flysurfer dealer and have a little inside knowledge, they are talking to a few pros, a few very well known pros, but the pros do want a certain amount of money, that flysurfer is still not able to cover, or that flysurfer does not want to cover. Keep an eye out this year, you may be surprised by the results achieved by kitesurfers on foils.
Another rider, Ted Bautista from virginia kitesurfing in hatteras has gotten very good results in the local competitions using the psychos.
Anyway, talking to you guys is like talking to a brick wall, but at least i am not putting down lei users and criticizing their kite choices.
About a Lei being more aerodynamic than foils!?!? you must be an accountant or lawyer or economist or something, because anybody with a little logic and knowledge of engineering knows this is not true.
If an lei is more aerodynamic, then why the hell is my 9.3 warrior more powerful than my friends 2002 fuel 14! Thats just bullshit, why do you think paragliders are made like foils and not like inflatables?
Andres

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Andres_Santacruz on 2003-01-11 20:14 ]</font>


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2003 7:54 pm 
Pros know what is good for them. Anyone who spends 4-6h a day on a kite will know intimately the smallest nuances of their boards and kites. Some of these guys will spend hours shaving mm off their fins or rails to gain miniscule improvements in performances. ALL of them realise that ram airs are not up to par compared to inflatables. Even if a ram company was going to throw thousands of dollars at them, it is not worth it because it will restrict their performance. Why settle for being number 213 on the world tour when you can be number 32 with an inflatable?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2003 8:08 pm 
Hey Andres, who are these guys???
-Marcus Damsell??
-Ted Bautista??
-Kermit the Frog??

Peter Trow rides inflatables. When he rode rams he wasn't in the top 50.


Andres, it is a shame that you think aerodynamic performance is all about POWER as a ratio to surface area - this is regrettable and reflects your inherent bias and lack of knowledge about aerodynamic principles. And no, I'm not a lawyer or accountant. Your 9.3 Warrior probably is more powerful than a Fuel 14 - but SO WHAT. If you want a more powerful inflatable, buy a 16- it will still turn faster, jump better, relaunch better, be more stable in rotors, be safer in the surf and offshore, and will fall from the sky in wind dropouts AFTER a 9.3 Warrior.


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