The issue was not, as Toby over-simplified it, who makes the best kite. The issue has to do with the integrity and business practices of the people that now call themselves Windwing, which could very well effect the users of this forum at some point. Posing as other people, posing as a kiteboarder when you are not, pretending you have first-hand knowledge of a product you sell but have never used -- I think is important for people to know, and I think a lot of readers here would find that important to know. Toby disagrees, obviously.

The link between Toby and Windwing runs far deeper than anyone who reads this forum should be comfortable with. I was surprised the thread was not locked, moved, or deleted sooner.

I think Toby is a great guy too, though I've never met him. I also think he needs to watch his own credibility. If he's so obviously in the pocket of his advertisers -- people will eventually lose interest, and he may have to get a real job someday. I honestly hope not. I think he's got a great gig going and I wish him the best, though I almost never read any of the forums anymore -- a friend emailed me and alerted me to the original thread.

Fo -- I think you're nuts, but that should not bother you a bit!!

PSSST,

Don't tell anyone, fo don't post here any more...

Frankly I think you're a little nuts too...

It's a user's forum first and last.

That means its all about the kites.

These petty intustry folk who backbite, squabble, gouge and scandal, are all about the money.

When you say its not about the kites, I'd reply, then it's all about the money.

Perhaps you're to close to this to see that finacial interest drive all the bad blood here...

I'm just a simple guy, with no finacial interest whatsoever in kiting....

Perhaps, that's why you think I'm nuts?

I've shit for brains,,therefore I kite...

If its not about kiting,,,you can bet its about money, or fear of being exposed as having primarily a finanical agenda.

((((((( More stoked about the margine, than concerned about the mayhem ))))))))

Somebody chisel that in stone,,,,


I try to cut though the crap, that makes me a target for every bozo with a keyboard...

Sorry,,
Nobody is going to buy your integrity story.

You want this dude to burn,,,

That's it Right?


smile.

Regards
fokiten

I'm with Toby. It's one thing for two annonymous people to flame each other on a forum (or even 1 annonymous and 1 known person)
But when two or more known people, who've recently had a bad business dealing, start flaming each other on a public forum, well it's a lot more serious. Neither party will get anything good out of it and both people's reputations will end in tatters.

It's entertaining for us, but people's livelyhoods are on the line and they shouldn't be decided by who can post the most elegant argument on a public forum.

Let's keep it fun hey?

Dude, you're absolutely right. It's your money to spend on whatever equipment you choose, and your butt on the line if your gear fails. If you can't see this as more than a petty squabble between parties, and can't read the warning between the lines, go your merry way, think happy thoughts. I'm sure you won't hold it against us when you're swimming ashore and cursing the day you walked into WW.

It's very nice of you to be looking out for our best interests.

Badapple: I have seen more gear failure in the last month several different manufactures so its simple nonsense to single out Windwing unless you have a personal bone to pick. Which appears to be the real issue. Not Windwing build quality.
I received my Rapture 2 12 about a month ago I have had at least 6 good sessions on it. The build quality is very good, you can put next to any major kite brand and compare the quality construction. There is no quality issues NONE. Bottom line is this kite has more attention to detail than many of the current kites out there.
I'm very satisfied with Windwing.

X

Good luck with it, Xtream. Hope you continue to enjoy it.

BaddApple, sorry for the last post, I was a bit flippant.

I'm sure you probably do have legitimate grievences and concerns about Windwing. I just don't think this forum is the place to do it. All you'd be achieving is providing cheap entertainment for the masses.

First post but wont be the last believe me. I bought into the WW of old cause of the innovation and out of the box ideas of kite design that no other kite companies were doing. Have both a rapture and outrage.

Considering the guys at WW are still using Hansen's kite design and ideas I would hope the kites are still constructed good and the attention to detail is still there, Your still buying into the WW of old, After 20 years when your R+D guy leaves your not going to abolish everything he has done and what he had planned for the future. Hansen said he left in November and came up with the idea of the rampage so that is a prime example they are still working off of his designs.

Ren

at least one who understands it.

A business decision? Well if you think you, I don't care. I know how I decide, that's why this is the biggest forum worldwide. It wouldn't be the biggest, if I decide with commercial interest, like you see on other forums where posts about non advertisers are delete immediately.

And who stops you from posting your opinion about anything kite related?
No one, but it gets stopped if inside politics, private matters, persnal attacks etc are posted in a public forum.

Phantom rules? Well, if you don't know anything about, I would just shut the fuck up.

So, if you want to talk about Windwing, just start a new thread. But keep politics out.

Toby