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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2002 2:02 pm 
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Serriously, no problem on the upwind on the big kites.....except when I had to walk back upwind from being blown off the water when it got windy. Tune them right they fly great. Relaunching the big ones is not difficult at all unless it is extremely light.


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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2002 2:18 pm 
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Nothing personal but the Takoon and the Airush are definitly not in the same performance league as the Supertype. The 4.1 RRD kite outperforms those kites both in upwind ability and hangtime without mentioning durability and relaunchability. If you seriously test those kites for importers and you think that they work better than the Supertype ( as I understand about the same as the X2 in performance ) then you better go get someone to show you how to set up the kites and try again.


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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2002 3:03 pm 
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Hi Royce!

As I have said before, i'm really impressed with the performance of the supertypes!!!

I'm thinking of replacing my 2001 type 4 8.9 with a supertype 8 and my Mach 1 18.1 with a 19, how do the smaller ST's perform, are they like stunt kites??
Coxy


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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2002 3:23 pm 
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Hi Royce,

Don't underestimate the Takoon Skoop.
So far I didn't hear anything negative about it. The 8.5 was reported as a great kite with lots of lift and hangtime.
It should be in the league of the X2, ST and Mach1.

Although I didn't test all myself, I know people testing all of them and this is what they told me.
For sure the St is a great kite, but not the only one out there, which is good, so we have more choices :wink:

Greetings
Toby


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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2002 7:03 pm 
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Without a doubt, but the performance comparison to the one I tried definitly did not perform aswell as the Super. Maybee I need to try them again. I am sure that with Franz working there they will be a great kite. Also perhaps the RRD suited my riding and location better. I tried comparable sizes and even though I am definitly biased I would put it in about the same performance range as the RRD 4.1's.


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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2002 8:24 pm 
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try the Skoop 8.5 again and let us know in comparison to the ST 12.


Do you have wind all day?

thx
Toby


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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2002 9:13 pm 
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Toby...Puerto Rico has been really radical for about the last month. Sailing everyday from about 930 or 1000 till 4 or 5 everyday like clockwork. Overpowered to the max on a 12 for the last 4 days. Today is the first day that I don't have wind at home...a 1/2 hour drive away is perfect sideshore no one out but I'm spoilled....Im at home watching TV. I'll get a hold of one of the scoops in the DR and try again. I only sailed that one for about 10 minutes. Liked the feel and look but couldn't duplicate the loft or hang. Of course I'm biased as always. When are you visiting us? Problem is....you stay for a month and sail a diferent spot alone everyday and you'll only get about a half way round the island.
PS the Takoon kite 8.5 has an aspect ratio of 4.8 approximately 20% fatter than the Super. It is almost identical aspect ratio to the 4.1 and in my opinion was comparable to that kite but a totally diferent animal to the super and X2's. It was definitly slower and definitly took longer to depower to the window hard on the edge.
Aloha R

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Royce on 2002-05-23 22:20 ]</font>


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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2002 7:44 am 
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hello every body. I want to introduce a new parameter in the development of a kite. The AR is a good parameter, the most viewable for people but for me not the best (look a takoon skoop 5m, I rided last week with in a 40knots wind and jumps were around 8-9m high with a low AR). The most important paramater is the speed of the wing and the takoon skoop 8.5 is one of the faster kite. Why? Because the profile is thinner but the super type is thinner than the takoon. To thin is not good because you should move evrerytime the kite. The best is to have the best speed depending light or high wind. More, the size of the Leading edge is really important maybe as important as the profile and the AR. In this way the takoon is absolutely the thinner kite, this is one reason that this kite is, it's definitly my point of view, the best kite I've ever ride (I tried the mach 1; Super type;ARX;North; Cabrinha). As the supertype a good setting is important. Have good time


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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2002 9:59 am 
Hi again.

It,s funny see what you guys write here about different kites which you have been sailing about ten minutes and rest of your test results are based on IMO.

In my opinion Nicolasc is on the right way when he's thinking how the aerodynamics work in a highperformance kite.

Supertype in a good kite but not sent from the heaven. Takoon is in my opinion better kite than ST if you judge all different aspects. Airush lift has a good lift but otherwise I,m not very satisfied on it,s behaviour.

Testing a kite means that you seek the limits of the kite in different settings. At least I can,t do it without sailing the kite at least 2 -3 hours. Normally that has to be done in more than one day to be able to ride in different wind conditions.

Have fun what ever you are riding !

TL


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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2002 4:41 pm 
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Wow.. Nick deep. I totally agree about the testing theory also. And I think that IMO is relevant also as diferent riding styles need diferent performance from the kites. Next there is a couple of points about kite speed that need to be talked about. If you build a fast kite it needs a smaller chord or depth creating less drag. The thinner the chord the less lift it can develop. Thats why slow airplanes have fat wings. Great at low speed but fly slow. As lift increase drag increases more. Look at a glider wing, long and skinny, low drag. Therefore the aspect ratio directly affects drag. Thats why very short fat kites don't depower well but are very stable. By reducing the size of the leading edge we greatly reduce drag but I found the thin bladder also caused the kite to be a little soft in holding its u shape. If the kite is too aerodynamic ie fast we lose hang time but height roughly stays the same or even may increase. The shorter the lines the faster the kite. If you put a very aerodynamic kite on short lines the jumps are high but you fall fast because there was not enough drag holding the kite in the power. SO yes speed is nice to a point but I think the most important thing is developing a stable aerofoil at the appropriate speed for your preference. This is why IMO is how I always say what I found. The speed/ style of kite I like may be very diferent to you. I will however promise to go try the Takoon again. Seems like it has a very dedicated following huh?
Laters.R


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