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murdoc
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Postby murdoc » Tue Dec 11, 2001 2:26 pm

hey folks,

it seems that there's a hype going on about carbon-bars.
but can anyone give me one good reason for using carbon for a bar?

here's what i think:
-they are more sensitive (one cut with something sharp) and they'll break.
-they cost more
-they break instantly - not like V-steel which would bend first.

-you'll save about 150g - but the weight of the bar is carried by the kite - so this is no real advantage ...


so what's up with these things?
just hype or did i miss something???

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Postby sage » Tue Dec 11, 2001 3:12 pm

I agree, carbon is not all that, especially when it comes to boards but that's another can of worms.

Bar wise, I like the look of ex-flexi Andy Preston's new system. Very comprehensive including a lock off option and a snap shackle. Not to sure about rotations though but needs to be tried.

Check it out at http://www.s2kiteboarding.com

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murdoc
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Postby murdoc » Tue Dec 11, 2001 3:26 pm

i don't know if the safety works that good, but that's the right idea!

a bar got to be as simple as possible - the better it works.
and a bar that might break if slightly damaged is definately the wrong thing for me :wink: i need durable stuff!





when you get to boards, it's a whole different thing, but anyway - overrated, too.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: murdoc on 2001-12-11 15:30 ]</font>

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Toby
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Postby Toby » Tue Dec 11, 2001 8:03 pm

here is a picture of the bar from the site mentioned by "sage"

Image

Looks great. But who tested this bar yet? Did you sage? The leash won't be in the why when you are doing spins?

Toby

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Toby
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Postby Toby » Tue Dec 11, 2001 8:04 pm

the depower goes around the bar? or through a hole?

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Postby sage » Tue Dec 11, 2001 8:34 pm

Toby.. I think it's around the bar on that one but it's the other one I was really liking as I'm into the 'lock in' option and have been using the wipika bar with the PU on all my kites this year so I'm used to it...

<img src="http://www.s2kiteboarding.com/images/lockinbarPOP.jpg">

With this one it's webbing through some sort of eyelet and provided the webbing is hard core and does not wear it should work a treat with the rotation coming from the snap shackle and the leash not getting in the way... everything spins together.
Apparently the lock off is pretty solid too

Seems to be the best of the Slingshot ( floaters) Wipika ( PU Lock in and Lock off and central safety ) and Home made ( snap shackle )

It's not out and I've not tried it yet but I am on the case. Let ya know :smile:

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Paraflysurf
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Postby Paraflysurf » Tue Dec 11, 2001 9:48 pm


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Postby Paraflysurf » Tue Dec 11, 2001 10:16 pm

Carbon is a high tech material and it is perfect for the use it was made for, but very sensitive for all other conditions.
The carbon is perfect to take the load of the kite lines but not for being crashed to the ground. If you watch the kiters around, how the treat their material it is sometimes a wonder that not more bars brake.
To avoid scratches for example you can cover it with soft rubber and it is safe. And if you handle your bar with care you will have a good product for years. I have just developed a new bar. The tube is made of carbon and there are not only holes but even slots in it. I tested it with a few times of my own weight and it did not break.

But there are different kinds of carbon on the market. For kitebars it would be perfect to take an unidirectional carbon. If you take bad or cheap material you will get problems.

My first prototypes were made of Alu and the actual carbon-bar is much stiffer than the alu-tube. I first thought as you : The weight is no problem because the kite has to carry it.
But the carbon tube is just half the weight of the alu tube and it is always warm after a few seconds touch. My complete bar is not even 500 gramms and it has an integrated safety system with a lot of mechanic all inside the tube. You notice the weight of the bar if you use it in dynamic conditions and I dont want to miss my ultra light carbon-bar any more. I will never use another material again.

Greeting and good winds

M.Müller
paraflysurf@tiscalinet.ch

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murdoc
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Postby murdoc » Wed Dec 12, 2001 10:31 am

[quote]
On 2001-12-11 22:16, Paraflysurf wrote:
To avoid scratches for example you can cover it with soft rubber and it is safe. And if you handle your bar with care you will have a good product for years.
[...]

maybe. but letting go of the bar in an emergency case (using the safety-system) with the bar smashing on rocks is one thing a bar should handle...
unidirectional carbon wouldn't take this if not covered in thick rubber, would it?

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Postby Paraflysurf » Wed Dec 12, 2001 8:29 pm

Another advantage of my bar. You dont have to drop the bar. You hold it save in your hands while the integrated safety system safes your life. You just press a little button, let the kite fall down, do the 3 seconds reset and go on flying. Anyway my bar is fixed to the harness with a final safety system to cut all connections to the kite if your lines are catched by a helicopter or a ship or something dangerous like this.


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