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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 8:53 pm 
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BullsShit.com wrote:
yikes...
I hope he recovers.
question: why go out in these insane conditions...if your name is not Ruben ?


Even Ruben couldn't have held the kite that day.... 60 mph sustained gust on a 12m. Don't think so even though he does amazing things.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 2:42 pm 
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We really have to build better weather awareness out there. Sort like playing golf in a severe lightning storm. Some things are better avoided, like lightning (and golf?).

Image
Here is a closer view of the lofting when Jason swept into the frame. That is Paul's kite to the left on his 5th line.

Image
Jason had to have hit at very high speed. The kite gives some idea of the scale of the impact splash. I believe that is Jason's shadow in the splash about to be yanked again.

The complete story and more details including the miraculous outcome thanks to Paul's CPR skills and Ralph getting the rescue troops by phone appear in the article at: http://sbckiteboard.com/instructional?id=151


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 8:51 am 
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Quote:
Of the three riders (all on C kites), I believe Jason was the only one with kite near the zenith when the squall gusts really pumped up. Paul and Ralph had their kites lower and activated their 5th lines. More about this at:
http://www.kiteforum.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=2342449


All 3 off us on 5th line kites and all different scenarios.

Jason and I were just kiting along in the same direction (just staying upwind) both kites at 1-2... O'clock. With only a sign of some rain about 5 to 10 miles away. The wind went from average 15 mph to 70mph or so... in about 5 seconds, and not forecasted or major shift in direction. Only enough time to pull safety, if you get to it.

I felt fairly calm being lofted and pulled my 5th safety used to jumping high, thinking, no I don't want to go up right now (dropped me down right away) Since I was just ahead of him I had hoped he would see that I pulled mine and then pull his, Jason locked up and didn't pull his unfortunalty. If I were on an SLE (fly them too) either front line or to full depower, I would not have been able to pull in my kite (in that wind) and would have been pulled into deeper water (maybe 20minutes, too late to save him). If I would have let my kite go it could have wrapped around him downwind of me.

So in this case, my 5th safety saved my life and allowed me to reel in my kite to make it to my zodiac to save him in 5 to 10min... The first thing I did when I found him, his kite low in the tree (not pulling much at the point) was to pull his 5th line safety. The article says he was on a 4 line kite, but it was a 5th line kite 12m... I was on an 11m 5th line. Also if he he had pulled his safety just before (water only impact what killed him, not drowning) his kite would have had less power and left him in deep water to die. So things just worked out in a way that I was able to revive him with CPR and now he is having a blast kiting again after rehab, see article. Strange mix, but his kite pulled him to shore leaving him in a good spot to be saved. So many other variable could have happened.

Quote:
article says:A. Patterson, another kiter was mulling over whether to launch or not.


They could not ride from that area, there was no way to launch. That's why we were the only ones out. Nor could any other kiters get over there. We were the only ones with boats.

As some of you guys may know from your experiences. "You got be there" to know. I don't think anyone plan to kite in 70mph. But easy to decide not to go out if it picked up like nuts just before you set up.

Ralph only had his kite low since he was having other difficulties, before the major squall hit. Also on a 5th line safety, but couldn't release it... stuck... He had to pull chicken bone out the remove chicken loop to go to 5th, only coming to a stop when his kite hit the trees, even on 5th, it was pulling throough the water. If he had been kiting as we were... Safety stuck... Yikes! Some luck there... not planned...

To throw another thing in the mix. Jason would have hit feet first (boots pulled off) at high speed, then slamming body and face first in the water (helmet flying off). with impact direct to face (why his eye were in bad shape), his helmet would not help as much as it would from the back. Impact alone killing him... no breathing to suck in water. As I found him with no water in his lungs or a breath or pulse.

To kite that day, you needed a boat to get the that spot (few can do it). Great spot I have been to many times. Side to side onshore winds in a bay. If this were a regular SW day. there would have been up to a dozen or so guys out for sure... on the main beach, probably most would have been shocked by it and many hurt or killed. A regular SW day would leave guys in a larger open water area. From what I've learned be surprise that the weather can change once you get on the water, even after checking 5 different forcasts for the day. You won't be by your computer looking for updates and all you can do is go by what you see and if the signs aren't there, like you are used too, you can get hit bad. We kite in fronts here for wind mostly and fall is more unpredictable.

Just pulling a safety doesn't mean it's over. Better to think about what happens on your particular type of kite, scenario. Sure, maybe if you let your kite go, but then it may not be over for the guy downwind of you.

In my 25 combined years on the water in watersports. I've never been in anything like it. Like the pict shows. So never say never. It would almost be like saying you are a great car driver but will never get in an accident.

Some companies even say on their site that you can add a 5th line to SLE Bows...

The way I think of it. Were do you want someone to grab your kite on the beach when you are coming in overpowered? Right were a 5th line would go right? You can basically put a 5th line on almost any kite if we want, maybe use it on some days and other days not. Sure the 5th can cause other problems and make for a bad day, nothing is perfect out there... Hey, this is an Extreme Sport.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 2:35 pm 
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PBKiteboarding wrote:
Jason and I were just kiting along in the same direction (just staying upwind) both kites at 1-2... O'clock. With only a sign of some rain about 5 to 10 miles away. The wind went from average 15 mph to 70mph or so... in about 5 seconds, and not forecasted


I'm having difficulty believing that the forecast didn't say conditions would pick up and/or get gusty... Sure, it probably didn't say "15mph gusting to 70mph", but I doubt that it said "15-20 all day".

I agree that Fall winds are definitely unpredictable, something to bear in mind no matter how tame the forecast is...


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 3:22 pm 
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Hello Paul,

Outstanding job again in bringing Jason back from the brink through an intense CPR session. The odds are heavily stacked against success in such circumstances, I understand perhaps as low as 4 %.* Well done!

Looking at the sequence of images that Adam captured you can see over minutes where the wind eases slightly the kite climbs to the zenith and then arcs over to drag Jason shoreward, likely unconscious and submerged. It could have just as easily have arc'd over to the west taking him out into the channel. Instead he was dragged up on to the beach, feet still in the water but the rest on firm land. Recently we were talking about the feasibility of performing CPR in the water and concluded to do it effectively, the victim needed to be on a firm surface. Fate provided that and you did the rest along with Ralph calling in rescue to take over.

Weather can be a strange thing. I believe some forecasts were out days before with predictions of 50 mph gusts with this unusual system. I am not sure if Environment Canada or many of the local Canadian or USA sources carried this forecast or not. Looking at the images the sky darkened but didn't appear to assume the highly dramatic appearance that it did to the south around Buffalo. They got two feet of snow at the time but I believe you folks in the banana belt didn't get a heavy dump of snow. There was wind damage obviously enough. Sometimes a high tree line can obstruct clear view of systems moving in. Something like that may have figured in nasty lofting down here years back.

I would still routinely go through weather planning and monitoring for each session, just like pilots doing a weather check. Each year there is quite a lot of violent weather that comes through taking out the odd kiter in the process. Some ideas for weather planning and monitoring with emphasis on both Canadian and USA Internet resources appear HERE.

When in doubt, blow off riding for another day. It isn't perfect but it should ideally improve the odds for more good sessions and fewer dodgy ones.


* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardiopulm ... uscitation


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 4:41 pm 
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Believe it or not. Forecast 15-30mph... All good for a 12m 8m regular day. When wind goes higher, some may come in a put up a 6m or quit for the day. There are days when it can go higher and we pack it in. Some days are forecasted for 12mph and go to 40mph. Some days are forecasted for 25 and we get 8. We get skunked.

The idea of the story was to show beginners and everyone that mother nature can surprise you at anytime. I've been out there for years in the area and kite more hours than anyone around, know squall lines and forecasts, but will never think I can do better than a meteorologist, other than visual on site.

A couple of weeks earlier 3 guys on bow 2hrs away. One guy got pulled 20 feet horizontal 5ft or the ground. Another just let his kite go. Another got pulled into a break wall, broke his leg with the kite being pulled up and wrapping around a chimney.

Some kiters won't kite in fall to avoid these situations totally. One safe way to do it.

With the group of kiters being fairly small here and chances of wind going that high at the time of riding is very rare. Many will not experience it and feel it's easy to say they will never be caught in it.

Some days we may have had a great day and then look at a graph and say. "Man I hope no one was out in that" not forcasted. localized spike.

So again the idea is to remind kiters that this sport can be dangerous and unpredictable. That's why we call weather forecast, "Forecasts".
No need to lead newcomers into a false sense or security. Simply a major gust can whip you badly when not ready for it.

Just like the guys that make light of guys that get their kites caught in trees... then it happens to them. Their chicken loop comes out or releases or a line breaks or they get a gust of wind, boom. Now they can relate.

Never say never. Your time can come. Check weather and forecasts. But there is so more more to it as great as this sport can be.

Hopefully we're not trying to be like news casters trying to be famous, but more of the kiter in us passing on info to help others. That's why Jason and I told the story at first hoping no one gets it wrong, and that a tragedy with a good ending can open peoples minds.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 7:34 pm 
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Too true, thanks for telling your stories. I think they convey a lot of valuable knowledge.

Unfortunately, weather forecasters have a lot of ground to cover and may not be all that sensitive to the odd squall five miles across or other "minor" systems that can wreck a kite session. The burden falls on us to do our own weather checking to a reasonable level.

It isn't that hard to learn somethings that may be of use without getting a degree in meteorology. You look to what the experts write and use. It isn't perfect and it won't anticipate all things, good or bad but kiters shouldn't be riding blind just because it's blowing. Just put this up for Florida today as our winter season just started:


1. Check the best forecast for your area including wx hazards.
(like http://www.nws.noaa.gov/)

2. Check the national weather map loop to see if cold fronts or unstable systems are inbound. If so, how strong, how fast and when?
(http://www.hpc.ncep.noaa.gov/basicwx/day0-7loop.html)

3. Check color radar/satellite for inbound unstable weather. If so, how strong, how fast and when, what is the temperature drop? Waiting an hour or so can make all the difference sometimes, forewarned is forearmed.
(http://www.nws.noaa.gov/radar_tab.php , http://www.weather.gov/sat_tab.php?image=ir)


4. Check realtime winds both locally and upweather or in the direction the system is coming from to time the passage of a cold front, possibly with a squall line or just a dry mega boost in wind. Is the wind rising, if so how much, are there spikes, is the direction changing or erratic indicative of squalls. Rig for actual conditions AFTER the stable wind, wind shifts come on and new temperatures. Try to make sure you aren't avoidably "surprised" by the wind boosting and shifting side offshore as others have in the past.
(http://www.ikitesurf.com/windAndWhere.iws?regionID=171 , http://ompl.marine.usf.edu/PORTS/tampa.bay.html )

5. Keep your eyes open at the beach. Sometimes you can see cold front wind lines creep toward you, both the good kind and the kind that may be too much for what you are flying. Watch out for storm clouds and avoid having a kite up when they approach.

You can time your cold front wind waiting down to about 30 minutes at times using this technique and be prepared with a better idea of what kite size to fly. Less time waiting and changing out kites/boards, more time riding?!

Think about trying this out and tell us how you do.

FKA, Inc.

transcribed by:
Rick Iossi


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 9:47 pm 
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Wow,
What luck & fast thinking saves a life.

Thanks for keeping these posts active. They teach us all a lesson and raise our awarness of the dangers.

i can imagine that the commitment to keep track of these problems, and keep us on our toes, actually saves lives.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 10:27 pm 
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Good to help guys out...
Don't expect a 100% depowerable kites.
Watch out for marketing and safety claims.
I was pulling about 100lbs or so on my 5th line and that's the most depower you can get unless you release your kite. 100% depower is when the kite is in the bag.

Do your best on weather knowledge, good links... but don't time weather to expect you will be safe 100% unless you can time the market 100%.
The only thing that is constant is change... expect it.

Learn more details about your gear and how it works. Ask more questions about gear when buying.
Question everything. Try to become more techy and know what your gear will do in a variety of conditions.
Your choice on safety re gear will help manufacturers to strive for better systems.

Try to go over different scenarios in your mind. What if...
For example, I chose this location, in case... something goes wrong...

Lines wrapped around you
5th around kite.
Ripped kite
Cold water
Kite collisions, tangle
Spirals
Broken lines, which ones what happens...
Broken safety line?
So many more things... as on the forum
Learn about the weather but again.
Don't expect forecasts to come true, you need a way out and need to focus on more as a back up.
and so on... Forums are good.... like this for sure.

Work on the things you can control for the times you have no control over other things... I expect that everyday will be unique.

So many untold stories... I have seen allot... More stories can be good... so guys will know that we are not invincible or the best or know it all, like hey, I'll never get hurt kiting... Well then again some have stopped kiting.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 1:00 am 
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PBKiteboarding wrote:
Believe it or not. Forecast 15-30mph... All good for a 12m 8m regular day. When wind goes higher, some may come in a put up a 6m or quit for the day. There are days when it can go higher and we pack it in. Some days are forecasted for 12mph and go to 40mph.

A couple of weeks earlier 3 guys on bow 2hrs away. One guy got pulled 20 feet horizontal 5ft or the ground. Another just let his kite go. Another got pulled into a break wall, broke his leg with the kite being pulled up and wrapping around a chimney.

Many will not experience it and feel it's easy to say they will never be caught in it.

Some days we may have had a great day and then look at a graph and say. "Man I hope no one was out in that" not forcasted. localized spike.


Sounds like a dangerous spot - if the forecasts are that unreliable and the spikes that severe, nobody should be riding there...


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