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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2002 5:28 am 
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Location: Mexico City, Mexico.
Tim,
I think your comments are a little harsh,
one: You were not there, and it seems that no one on this forum was there, so judgements and skepticism is pointless, because no one here knows exactly what happened.
Two: You can't say what would have or would have not have happened, unless you can predict the future, in that case you should know which lottery tickets to buy or what stocks to invest in and at what point to sell them.
Guys, let's all avoid judging the rider who let go of the kite, the circumstances, etc. Accidents happen, and talking about what would have or could have happened is pointless because in this case you can't change the past, what's done is done. Positive discussion and analysis of what can be improved, is what we should do, to prevent things like this happening to us in the future.
About getting out of the chicken loop, believe me, in a situation like this, it is almost impossible. I was unexpectedly lofted while flying an 840 arc at about 2 o'clock in side offshore winds of about 15-18 knots. What lofted me was a sudden 25+ knot gust. I was lofted about 4 meters vertically, and 20 meters horizontally, I missed a rock barrier with sharp wooden poles sticking up by about 3 meters, I am extremely lucky I didn't get hurt. Imagine the power of two pro kitesurfers kites (larger than the ones we use in the same wind), suddenly combining, take into account probable loss of control of the kites, and add to that a rider who was not expecting this, and you get the equivalent of a very strong lofting, much stronger than the one I experienced. There is no way she could have done anything.
Andres Santacruz


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2002 8:48 am 
@Andres:

I apologize for sounding harsh, but I am worried about the more and more upcoming attitude of advanced and pro-kiters I observe.

They behave like here I come see my handlepass, I don´t need leashs nor releases, who cares about the guy downwind, I will simply jump over him, cause I control everything. Safety issues to me are not a problem of beginners. To my experience most beginners are very reasonable and show lots of respect to unsafe conditions and safety issues. Often they stay on land when feeling uncomfortable. It is more to the more experienced that feel to be able to control everything.

This is I observe at some spots and I really don´t want to be a guy downwind of such kiters. I want to have the safest fun you can achieve for me and other riders on spot.

Tim


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2002 9:00 am 
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Location: Munich, Germany
Tim,
I agree that I don't want to be downwind of anybody practising such tricks. But it doesn't mean that doing such tricks is necessarily very dangerous: if there is nobody downwind of you, do what you want. I think the notion of "distance is your friend" should always be at the forefront of our thinking, especially when jumping or launching, etc. Always think about what you are doing, then things seem to be much safer.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2002 9:42 am 
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Location: Hamburg, Germany
blaming the rider is wrong.

if he had a kiteleash installed, he would be the only one taking part @ a pro - contest.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2002 9:53 am 
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Joined: Mon May 27, 2002 1:00 am
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Location: Hungary
For the people blaming others, just think over who could be made responsible:
- the kite industry for selling equipment without proper security,
- the organizers of the event for the unsecure location and for not forcing the riders to use safety equipment,
- the riders for not using safety equipment (the rider who has let go of his quite should have had a leash and Silke should have had a quick release).

I think all of us, the industry, the event organizers, the riders should stop blaming each other and rather need to rethink what needs to be done in order to make kiting a safer sport.

Regards,
Greg


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2002 10:21 am 
I CAN'T BELIVE what I read here, calling somebody a murder without knowing any details or fact is just brainless.
If you haven't seen it with your own eyes the you should better shut the f.....
up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What happend is bad enougth. I just hope that I will never have to read that kind of storys agin.

Uli


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2002 10:46 am 
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I think people should stop blaming this incident on the guy who let go of his kite.
This is one of the risks of kiting, even people who have leashes can be in situations where they have to let go of their kites. The main problem is not being able to let go of all your equipement and not trying to hold on to it. This is why chicken loops and leashes are dangerous safetys.
Obviously the guys kite got caught in Silk's lines and she got so powered she should have let go of her kite. But of course the more she pulled on here bar to unhook from the chicken loop the more here kite would power.
It is the same with leashes: I have seen people get so powered up they get dragged and pulled out the water by their leashes, luckily most of the time the leashe breaks.
At least ith a 2 line kite with no leash you can let go of everything if you really get in to trouble. I am not saying to let go of your kite as soon as you get overpowered or anything but I think that safetie leashes and chicken loops are not the ultimate solution.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Buster on 2002-06-10 11:48 ]</font>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Buster on 2002-06-10 11:50 ]</font>


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2002 10:48 am 
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<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Buster on 2002-06-10 11:49 ]</font>


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2002 11:00 am 
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Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2001 1:00 am
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Location: World (KF Admin)
here the part from the official report at Oase.com regarding which kite got into whoms:

"...Nachdem sich ihr Kite in den Leinen eines Mitstreiters verfing..."

--> "...when her kite got tangleled into a competitors kite...."

It is wrong to blame the guy who let go of his bar.

Imagine following:
the guy would have had a safety leash:
Silke's kite getting into his kite like it did, and he let go of his bar using a safety.
Now they wrap around and his kite doesn't open the way it should. Now both kiters are pulled without control over the wooden breaker. 2 kiters dead?

It was tragic and maybe it could have been avoided by using a leash and quick release.
But you never know what happens and maybe you do everything right and whatever happens this can happen to everyone.
It is up to us know doing the right things and buying the right things.
We can minimize the risks, but if you don't want to get hurt or die, you will not be safe anywhere. Whatever you do or don't do, it can happen.

Toby


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2002 11:05 am 
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Location: Hamburg, Germany
i'll post some pics of my safety-system as soon as i get home.

another thing concerning chickenloop-riding:
if you get dragged and have no chance to regain kite-control, let go of the bar and try to get yourself out of the loop using both hands @ the loop. if you have to power the kite up before releasing, you don't have a chance while being dragged.

i don't know how it is in other areas, but here in northern germany, every surfshop has load-tested and really approved snap shackles, and most people are using them.

for sure, these shackles cost about 40-50$

-> but if you spend 2-4x $1000 for your kite(s), and $700 for your board - what are 50 more bucks to make it a lot safer????


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