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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 6:57 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 19, 2005 5:34 am
Posts: 102
wait wait wait.

sheet out a bit here, fellas.

shouldnt we all give the folks at real a chance to respond? i mean, dudes, this a public forum, and in most of the world, except maybe china and iran and a few other fascist-religious states, we are innocent until proven guilty.

i know nicky from real and i know he tries to be a righteous dude, has helped me out of a jam or two in obx when he could have said "blow it out your bum." and man, he is one dude who is not just all about customer service.

so lets all settle a bit and wait for for what trip and the boys have to say. who knows, maybe someone stole THEIR property.

jimmi


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 6:59 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2005 8:02 pm
Posts: 11
Location: Northwest US
Waves-n-Butter, hit it right on the head. REAL's entire focus is making as much money as possible, and to screw the individual kiter. Sure, it is a business, and businesses need to make money to stay alive. But, they go beyond that and try to exploit every dollar out of anyone who contacts the shop. I just so happen to be an ex-REAL employee and experienced this first hand. "If someone calls in and you don't make a sale, then you just wasted the 2-5 minutes you spent with that person on the phone...." That is a direct quote(minus a word or two) from Trip.

This lawsuit crap is no shocker to me. Just goes along with their philosophy on making as much money as they can, and to screw others. If they have a problem with other companies using their "so-called" trademark terms of Ground Control and Water Time, then they should have just called that company and talked to them owner to owner. From what I hear, they didn't do that with any of these companies. Instead, they just fired off letters from lawyers asking for compensation for using these terms. If compensation wasn't agreed upon, then they take you to court and sue you. Great stuff for what is supposed to be a fun and small knit kiteboarding community.

Happy kiting.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 7:30 pm 
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Joined: Sun Oct 20, 2002 1:00 am
Posts: 920
Location: Roosevelt Island, New York City
I don't know the situation, but I have to say, that from the looks of things it's a few (or maybe one) hater talking trash.

Why are all the negative posts by new users, and users admitting that they're hiding behind a fake username?

How much credibility does a post like the one from the OP written, in the words of another responder, "like a retarded 8 yr old."

Would be nice to hear a response from Real... or maybe they won't even dignify this thread with one.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 7:35 pm 
This is not a made up story, unfortunately it's true, from what I have heard.
I agree, kiting should be about fun and freedom, not bringing law suits over catch phrases. :roll:

Does Real truly have legal intellectual domain over terms like "water time" ?
Ridiculous. I am very interested to hear from Real as well, because if they truly are claiming they have rights, here are some larger targets to go after.

http://www.watertime.com/
http://www.watertime.net/
http://www.water-time.it/


Last edited by Skyway Scott on Wed Nov 28, 2007 7:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 7:50 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2007 4:04 am
Posts: 199
Location: Florida Keys
It sounds more like REAL is trying to prevent LOCAL shops from using similar catch phrases.

It may not completely hold water, but the validity of defending any trademark phrase or term is to "avoid confusion" with another company.

If a local shop in the area is advertising or using the same terms, then yes, there could be an arguement for confusion.

If REAL is suing a company in SF Bay for using the terms in their local dialogue, then that would be ludicrous. But if REAL is just using legal methods to prevent certain local companies from using certain catch phrases associated with REAL, then they might have some grounds.

In simplest terms, if there is any proof of confusion, they have some grounds. It is probably best to get the full story to see what they are trying to accomplish.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 7:58 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2006 12:03 am
Posts: 105
Location: Seattle, Washington
assuming that this is not just slander, i would say to all lets boycott REAL, thats not a good attitude to take when what the lessons are trying to accomplish is to protect others, not a business model or to create profit. I swear this capitalist attitude will cause a downfall of kiteboarding instructors. what we are going to end up with is a bunch of jack asses not caring about quality of instruction. I believe in the open source method, one kiter to another helping each other and forming a comradeity amongst kiters.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 8:20 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 17, 2006 5:35 pm
Posts: 1150
to be clear,

Their entire program is nothing more than fokiten's deep-water tuition put to practice, further more ground school was also outlined for them by fokiten...starting as early as 2002.

sorry REAL, it's a matter of record, not speculation.

I also have it on good authority, that his intention was it be released to the public domain as a gesture of thanks...to the sport.

after-all

fokiten is shorthand for "for kiting"






shastadogs2 wrote:
wait wait wait.

sheet out a bit here, fellas.

shouldnt we all give the folks at real a chance to respond? i mean, dudes, this a public forum, and in most of the world, except maybe china and iran and a few other fascist-religious states, we are innocent until proven guilty.

i know nicky from real and i know he tries to be a righteous dude, has helped me out of a jam or two in obx when he could have said "blow it out your bum." and man, he is one dude who is not just all about customer service.

so lets all settle a bit and wait for for what trip and the boys have to say. who knows, maybe someone stole THEIR property.

jimmi


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 8:32 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2006 1:40 am
Posts: 806
Location: Lost, where the wind meets the beach
The main thing it tells me and disgusts me, is Reel management has been told by Reel legal they may have a chance to make business real difficult for other kite co's in the area, AND Reel accounting said, YEP, we have enough $$$$$ to pay you lawyers to fight this mass suit.

I guess they have made plenty of $$ anyway, what do they care?


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 Post subject: trademark defense
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 8:34 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2003 7:48 pm
Posts: 144
Location: Charleston SC
I have been going to Real for a long time, 6 + years I think. While I'm friendly with Matt, in recent years I feel like the focus has been more on selling kites than helping out kiters.

I know they still feel like they are providing a service to the kiting community, and frankly they are because they do teach rookies the skills needed to rig and kite safely. I always recommend them as a place for newbies to learn (better than getting dragged down your local beach and getting kiting banned).

Newbie teaching aside, I used to call them all the time for advise on kites and boards but in recent years I have felt like they are 100% sales all the time and never offer objective advise. Every time you ask about a kite they sell it rocks. If they don't sell the kite it's because they tested it and it sucks or 'the manufacturer doesn't support their product'.

They still are pumping out LF and Jimmy Lewis boards even though the Flexi and Nobile boards are (IMHO) far superior. I think this has to do with manufacturer relationships rather than an honest evaluation of current kiteboarding equipment.

Sales pimping aside, I can't blame them for trying to protect their trademarked names like:

'Water Time'
'Zero To Hero'

Etc.

Especially with the local kite shops. Why should Real pay for advertising in all the major magazines and sponsor all these events with marketing tie ins and then have some local shop steal their students by offering the 'same' class for less money. I can't say I blame them for suing over trademarks (although a nice call or letter first would be preferred).

Anyway, rambling post aside, I don't trust them for advise anymore but I still feel they are the best place in the world to go from zero to hero in 3 days. I think it would be a bit unfair to judge them for protecting their trademarks especially without knowing the details of the cases. maybe they DID ask nicely a few times...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 8:45 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2007 8:03 pm
Posts: 154
This is a common fund raising tactic... threaten to sue... get the victim upset and scared... then let them settle out of court for some $$$.

Scumbags. I once worked for a creep who did this to every single contractor he hired... he never actually sued any of them, just delivered a lot of threatening letters from lawyers scaring the crap out of them and forcing them to pay up. Legal extortion.


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