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 Post subject: Re: trademark defense
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 10:23 pm 
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Location: Kailua, Hawaii, currently riding EH and OR kites (2013 Razor rocks!)
GhostDog wrote:
There are thousands of examples of phrases that have been trademarked by people that didn't make up the phrase, for instance..

John Calipari, basketball coach, heard fans chanting 'refuse to lose' about his team and trademarked the phrase. Now you can't sell a t-shirt without cutting him in.. smart? yes... slimy? yes..

That's just the sign of a pathetic legal system. Capitalism takes over law... Truth is for philosophers. Law is for businessmen.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 10:29 pm 
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This thread is growing like its on fire!

Too many flamers not enough fact.

Every interaction I've EVER had with the anyone affiliated with REAL has been positive. From gear purchases of "used" gear that was perfectly crispy and could not have been used more than maybe twice to just grabbing the days forecast, the whole group, Trip and Matt included have been stand up people.

Ive heard rumbles of discontent from other shops regarding this issue and other sliders in the region, but have never seen or heard anything first hand.

The marketing does get thick, but look at the industry as a whole. Were totally gaga for marketing spiel and tech out over the lamest stuff.

Real do have a very pervasive marketing strategy, and IMHO claiming "zero to hero" makes sense, where "water time".... not so much, but whatever.

Until there are some REAL facts presented I'm not inclined to go on anything other than my personal experience.

It will be interesting to see if anyone from REAL responds to this thread.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 10:34 pm 
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question from an european....
what si real/reel? brand? shop?compagny,association?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 10:35 pm 
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Zero to Hero was a whitewhater kayaking move in which you went from upside down to a cartwheel (on end) in a in a quick move of the torso and paddle. That was the term far prior to kiteboarding existing as far as I know.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 10:42 pm 
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You can TM a prhase or term for a specific purpose like kiteboarding


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 10:45 pm 
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You have asked me to respond to this post, so here it is.

My response is that I don’t have any specific information on these topics.

I will speak for myself and the rest of our present staff that we enjoy what we do, and we are stoked on kiteboarding.

Will anyone be in Hatteras this weekend to get the swell that is rolling in? NE 20knots with a solid NE swell coming down the pike. If so, hit me up for a session.

Go get out there and take some sessions.... I just got back from hitting it at the Lighthouse.

Other than that, see ya on the water!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 10:49 pm 
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Never Mind


Last edited by 72kiteboarder on Thu Nov 29, 2007 12:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 11:00 pm 
Seriously though, you guys aren't suing over a dumb phrase like WATER TIME, right? Call someone "high up" and ask. Then just hop on and say you're not.
If you really are suing, it seems odd.
Nearly ALL kite shops and instructors have used that term for years.
I remember wakeboarding at least ten years ago and hearing "there is no substitute for time on the water. Water time is everything".

It's such a mundane and overused term. Do you guys really think that term WATER TIME is so friggin' catchy that newbies will read it off your site and say
"Damn... I gotta go there... WATER TIME... baby... friggin' A.... that sounds INSANE in that description!!!!" :roll:
Do you really think the term will distinguish your program's lesson description that much from others who simply remove the term and substitute "Time on the water" or similar? WATER TIME hardly distinguishes one Joe from any other in a lesson description, it's ludicrous to believe otherwise. That's why I know you can't really be suing over something so silly. Who thought up this rumor? It's crazy.

Funny, I've type WATER TIME now several times and it really still lacks any catchiness, pizzazz or .... shi.t it's really just a lame as.s phrase, isn't it. The more I type it, it becomes clearly non-original, boring... just lame.
The more I think about, the lamer it gets.
Do any other shops actually use that phrase?
They should be ashamed if they do, it's a lameas.s marketing phrase that lacks any originality whatsoever. Man, it's like worthless, really.
Sue over it. Nahh... Who started this silly rumor. Only a fool would sue for such an overused, non-original, lamea.ss phrase.

Ahhhh... that's what you are suing them over (assuming it's not a rumor). Real is suing other shops and instructors for being non-original lameas.ses and using a lame term. Finally.... I knew if I just kept typing it would become clear.

Phewww. I feel better knowing that you guys are just doing your part to spur on more original thought in kiteboarding marketing by insisting all others stop using such a lame term.
Did you really have to sue though? Seems like such a lame term, people would just say "No problem, that term sucks anyway".


Last edited by Skyway Scott on Wed Nov 28, 2007 11:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 11:11 pm 
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All of this info is available to the public, so do a search and you will find out all about Reals little lawsuits. These are facts not opinions or just some flamers rant. It was just a matter of time before someone opened their mouth about this.

I wont deny that real does have the trade mark on ZERO 2 HERO, Water time, Real, R, and ground control. You can look them up online at-

http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=epno9s.7.3

Its just really really pathetic that Real went to the level of actually suing shops for using terms they only received patent rights on a few months ago!! The right thing to do is just call the shops "hey guys we have the tradmark on these terms so if you want to use it you have to pay a royalty" And thats the end of the issue!!

If the shops try to defend themselves they will spend 1,000's and 1,000's before they get to court, so Real takes the gamble that the shops they sue will just pay them a settlement rather then fight them in court. With a case like this the guy with more $$$ wins, its that simple.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 11:18 pm 
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windyinOregon wrote:
My problem with this entire situation, is they should of picked up the phone, or shot an email to the owner of 'X' shop, asking them to stop using those terms.

They didn't. Instead, they used their lawyers to try and threaten the "little guys" out there, and to force them to pay them money.


Why does everyone keep jumping to this conclusion? What story has been given to make you think that they immediately called their lawyers rather than call the shop? Perhaps they did call the shop, but the shop thought it was silly and refused to comply.


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