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 Post subject: Re: REPORT UNETHICAL KITE COMPANIES HERE
PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 10:08 am 
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You can use that argument in other areas too though. I was hit by a 45knot gust while out on my 12m bow. I was able to safely get through it and get back to land. I don't want to know what would have happened if i had been on a c kite.


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 Post subject: Re: REPORT UNETHICAL KITE COMPANIES HERE
PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 10:21 am 
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rafjaf wrote:
I have to say that in some way I agree with Experimental Player,
I started kitesurfing with C kites and my progression was really slow for 6 months. I then bought bow kites and rode them for a year. I absolutely loved them, thought that they were the future of the sport and the best thing out there. I progressed at such a speed compare to my previous experience with the C kites. However in the space of 1 year I had :
- 1 selflaunch were thebridle got tangled on the wingtip resulting in death spiral : Fair enough you can say it was my fault I should have double checked properly when I selflaunched.
- 1 line breaking on me on the bar pulley : honestly you really couldn't see that the line was weared off.
- 5 front pulley broke while flying resulting in death spiral: for 4 of them it happened while riding or at landing so nothing bad really happened, for one of them i was boosting on high wind and the front pulley broke on the top of the jump which must have been easily 20 feet high. The kite looped 2 times before i was smacked and winded out on the water, thank god the water was waist deep and i was able to stand up.
Since then I've never trusted any kites with pulleys anymore and I'm back to C kite and fifth line.

Now I have to add that I've always ride in suicide mode or freesstyle mode as they call it because there was no 5th line system in those bow kite. And to be honest I might have been beggining but there was no way I was riding a kite i just bought and not be able to unspin the bar after rotation.
So i suppose my example is a bit specific, if your bow kite does have a fifth line that's a big plus because at least you can totally depower the kite and do rotation and don't have to sacrifice one for another.
However you still have the problem of the pulleys and they should definitely do something about it. You can't sell a product knowing that the weakest point in it result in a death spiral.
How often a line break on a C kite honestly? Not as often as a pulley on a bow.
At least Cabrinha seems to be innovativing in this one with the IDS, from what they say, if the front line pulley brake you can still totally depower the kite. That's great.

And I just want to finish by saying that in no way i hate bow kite or people riding it, honestly i couldn't care less what kite people are using. It's just that, from my experience, I don't feel safe riding kite with pulleys anymore and no-one can go on the water throwing jumps and tricks not trusting his equipment.

Raphael


You put what Im trying to say in a nice way. Well done.

I had a guy invert, tangle or something crazy up wind of me and totally take me out on the beach.
He released his kite after we danced then tumbled.
I was still connected to my safety leash and he completely released - Like bow kites do
Then I was stuck with his kite towing me backwards like a drag truck.
I eventually found and released my safety leash.

He was such an idiot ran down the beach all concerned about his new bow kite.
Lucky I had a couple of minutes to cool down cause I was really pissed off.
Kites with bridles! man I have had some bad experiences and I recon you guys riding them are complete kooks.

Missionary man dont fill people full of crap. 12m in 45 knots. You really are a complete dumbow.


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 Post subject: Re: REPORT UNETHICAL KITE COMPANIES HERE
PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 10:36 am 
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Experimental player wrote:
rafjaf wrote:
Missionary man dont fill people full of crap. 12m in 45 knots. You really are a complete dumbow.


No crap, this is not the kiteable wind range of a kite we are talking about, this is purely surviving. Even with the kite at the edge of the window (past the stopper) there was enough pull for me to ride my board to shore (cross winds made it easy). When I hit shore i had to keep my hand on the QR in case someone couldn't get to the kite before I got dragged to the edge of the beach. Some guy on a 9m crossbow dumped his kite because the winds were too strong.

A C kite would have been uncontrollable and I would have dumped my kite 300m out and been stuck with a long swim in if I wasn't unlucky enough to have the kite up in the air when the gust hit.


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 Post subject: Re: REPORT UNETHICAL KITE COMPANIES HERE
PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 10:42 am 
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If your 12m bow kite can do it my 12m vegas can do it to and my vegas wont invert.

So anyway how did you land your kite, or did you both completely kook it and wreck your gear.

5th line will flag effectively in that wind.


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 Post subject: Re: REPORT UNETHICAL KITE COMPANIES HERE
PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 10:44 am 
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Somebody caught it and my kite flags out on one of the front lines so I can flag it in strong wind.


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 Post subject: Re: REPORT UNETHICAL KITE COMPANIES HERE
PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 10:45 am 
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Well I still think your a kook.


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 Post subject: Re: REPORT UNETHICAL KITE COMPANIES HERE
PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 10:48 am 
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MissionMan wrote:
You can use that argument in other areas too though. I was hit by a 45knot gust while out on my 12m bow. I was able to safely get through it and get back to land. I don't want to know what would have happened if i had been on a c kite.


I suppose that's fair enough, even if you made it sound a bit dramatic about the 45knots gust :D
Well it's true that bow kites handles gust way better and are way smoother ride in gusty condition. I can't argue about that. And if the wind is really really too gusty then I just stay home.
But to be honest, do you really have fun riding in extremely gusty weather? Do you really enjoy yourself in this conditions. Well I don't, if it's way too gusty (I'm speaking gust 10 knots or more than the average windspeed) then i can't do tricks properly. I suppose I know my own level, that's part of the sport.
However I could use your argument against you too: What if your front pulley break during that 45 knots gust? Extremely strong wind + loop = things happen really fast, jumping or not. One of the difference about C and bow (from my point of view only) is that when i was hit by gust on a bow i would just depower the kite at max and push the bar and usually got through ok. Now with a C, i just release on 5th, want for the gust to be over and then relaunch. I never used my QR on my bow, except on the condition that i listed in my previous post because if you don't have any fifth line on your bow you have to let go of the kite completely which could end up putting somebody else downwind of you in danger like in EP previous post.
I really think that bow either need a fifth line or shoulnd't be setup in suicide mode. Well not in gusty wind anyway.


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 Post subject: Re: REPORT UNETHICAL KITE COMPANIES HERE
PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 10:51 am 
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MissionMan wrote:
Somebody caught it and my kite flags out on one of the front lines so I can flag it in strong wind.


Just one question: when you say it flags on a front line, are you talking on release of QR or with a OSH?


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 Post subject: Re: Report Unethical Kite Companies Here
PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 11:00 am 
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funny, how some people don't see their options (mainly the initial poster of this topic...)

Here a choice for you:

1. buy from another company, but don't bash a company for a mistake you did?!
2. get into a cheaper sport

You got the choice, why go on a bashing tour?

Any commercial interests?

Of course, this goes into Flamer's Paradise! :angryfire:


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 Post subject: Re: REPORT UNETHICAL KITE COMPANIES HERE
PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 11:02 am 
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MissionMan wrote:
You can use that argument in other areas too though. I was hit by a 45knot gust while out on my 12m bow. I was able to safely get through it and get back to land. I don't want to know what would have happened if i had been on a c kite.


That actually works against the bow, in 45kts your going to be over powered on your 12m "100% depower" Bow. Maybe you'll have an early bow kite with a let go of the bar safety but no leash. In that situation your fcuked! Or you could leash out to rear line safety and death spirl with no chance of a reride.

On the a 5 line C kite, deploy onto the 5th line, kite drops down wind 95% depowered. Then relaunch and off you go again...


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