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 Post subject: Kitesurfers now the fastest in all directions !!!
PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 11:09 pm 
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During the last year, something really astonashing has happened - as kitesurf raceboards are getting faster and faster upwind, with the rapidly growing courserace R&D happening :thumb:

So at the latest races here, even the good course race windsurfers was beat by the good kitesurf course racers, in conditions just above or around the 10knots only.

Kitesurfers (well, the latest raceboards) now go at a higher angle to the wind than the ultimate windsurf raceboards, and at almost the same speed, so higher VMG.

And at the downwind legs (or halfwind) the kitesurfers are smoking everybody else by a huge margin.

This means the kitesurfers are about to be the fastest sailing craft in ANY direction - upwind, halfwind, downwind, and in pure max speed as we know from speed sailing.

Trimarans and catamarans and keelboats can not keep up with the kitesurfers either, as long as the wind is suitable for planing (8 knots or more).

In less wind, the keelboats and some fast trimarans can go faster upwind though...

But at and above the 8-10 knots, it seems that nothing can keep up with the kitesurfers now :D

Has anyone got some knowledge/experience about the angle to the wind for different sailing crafts ? Or the VMG at different wind speeds (and water conditions) ?

Kitesurfers can go about 35 to 40 degrees upwind, windsurfers are about 5 degrees lower it seems, around 35 degree usually.

What are the angles keelboats and the best trimarans can obtain ?

Even though they are slower than both the windsurfers and kitesurfers in and above the 8-10knots VMG, it could be interesting to hear what the angles obtained are ?

My estimates based on other sites and measurements are that really good keelboats can go up to 50 or 55 degree to the wind in good conditions, and 45 to 50 when more rough.

Dinghys about 45 degrees.

What about foil kitesurf boards ?

Windsurfers still have the edge in very shitty gusty wind though, as far as I can tell...

Still, no matter if one find it very boring - it is interesting that kitesurf raceboards seems to be the fastest sailing craft now, of all crafts, around a race course or long distance race :thumb:

And still only at the start of a very rapidly growing evolution, so kitesurfers will be even faster upwind soon :P

Kindly, Peter Frank


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 Post subject: Re: Kitesurfers now the fastest in all directions !!!
PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 2:41 am 
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Location: North Bay, ON, Canada
I am not too sure.... have you seen this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWINygISxDE


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 Post subject: Re: Kitesurfers now the fastest in all directions !!!
PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 3:33 am 
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some big boats that can' t plane(mainly america's cup boats) can point up to 30 degrees, but they only do 10 knots or so upwind. Most boats as far as I know make best VMG upwind around 45 degrees even if they can sail closer to the wind.
I think the moth hydrofoil dinghy can point upwind well but I don't know the angles.


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 Post subject: Re: Kitesurfers now the fastest in all directions !!!
PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 11:22 am 
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Interesting to hear! Still enjoy my formula gear though, never tried a racing kiteboard.


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 Post subject: Re: Kitesurfers now the fastest in all directions !!!
PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 5:28 pm 
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Best angle for VMG is dependent on the wind velocity. Generaly you angle is lower (pointing higher or closer to up wind) at higher wind velocity. My pig of a 38 foot cruiser with a short keel makes around 35-37deg in 15-20knots and a lot less under chop and lower winds. Best way to see best vmg and pointing angle for wind range is a polar table or the boats "polars".

Image

Polar table for a Cal 40.


Last edited by gbleck on Fri Oct 31, 2008 5:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Kitesurfers now the fastest in all directions !!!
PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 5:31 pm 
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but when you "pinch the pig" like that, wutz ur botespeed?
Not to demean the art of cruising.
Fast is awesome, but a dose of living slow is a fine thing. :thumb:


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 Post subject: Re: Kitesurfers now the fastest in all directions !!!
PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 5:49 pm 
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It's realy the best VMG. At higher speeds and lower angles when running full sails you need more down wind rudder to hold course. Rudder is just like edge. To much is just drag. Only works in heavy wind no waves though. With even moderate chop the large mass kills. On a non planing hull once you get to hull speed (generaly determined by length) you hit that wall on the polar.

Has anyone got any Velocitek plots with local wind graphs for a new race board? I think the Velocitek software will calculate VMG live if you give it a wind direction by seting a point then walking upwind before launching.


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 Post subject: Re: Kitesurfers now the fastest in all directions !!!
PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 6:00 pm 
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DK Surfer cool video.

Those trimarads were hauling ass!! There are alot of boats faster then the top race kiteboarders. Check out the Skiffs called 49er's and Ozzy 18s, They simply have more sail area, planing surface, and point higher into the wind, then any kiteboarders. :thumb:


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 Post subject: Re: Kitesurfers now the fastest in all directions !!!
PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 7:28 pm 
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From sailing a 49er competitively and Kitesurfing, I dont thing there is any conditions were a kite surfer could get around the course faster....

Unless its over 30 knots... Nothing Like Crusing downwind with only 1 foot of a 16 foot boat in the water....


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 Post subject: Re: Kitesurfers now the fastest in all directions !!!
PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 7:54 pm 
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I agree. I think that there are a lot of boats out there that can be faster and point better that any kite board can in open ocean conditions. Sure, kite boards hold the outright speed record, but this was archived under very special conditions.... lots of offshore wind and relatively flat water. It took close 45 knots of wind for the kites to break the 50 knot record.
http://www.sail-world.com/Cruising/Fifty-knots-broken-again---New-Speed-Record/49448
Not terribly efficient, but I guess drags increases very rapidly at those speeds.

Here is the latest boat trying to break the 50 knot record in the open ocean
http://www.boatweb.com.au/2008/02/assault-on-the-world-sailing-speed-record/

Daniel


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