*


All times are UTC + 1 hour



Post new topic Reply to topic
 [ 12 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Wood layup your advice/opinion
PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 6:34 pm 
Offline
Frequent Poster

Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2008 8:51 pm
Posts: 365
I am currently working on a board and I am interested in everybody's opinion/advice. It is my first board and it is also for a school project so the better it it built, the better my mark :wink:

I will be using a one sided vacuum press to create the board - just like TomW did (http://www.kiteforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=107&t=2353313). btw tom your blog has been very helpful in planning this! thanks!

The core will be made up of 5 layers of 1/16" birch sheets, cut out to shape (to provide a flex pattern), with ABS rails. The plys will be pressed together, using epoxy as a glue, into one sheet by the vacuum press, which will also give rocker, and concave. I would also integrate the ABS rails at this point. So after pressing i would have a wood core with ABS rails.

Should i put my inserts in right away with the wood layup or put them into the finished core? I was thinking if i put the inserts in right away they could serve as a guide for the other layers when i put them on because the upper layers are smaller and i can't have them moving around when i press them.

After pressing I would glass the top and bottom layers by hand, as well as apply graphics. I was also thinking i might add some carbon strips across from fin to fin (in an 'X' pattern) to keep the tips stiff and add some support and overall stiffness to the board.

That's my rough plan. I suppose I could do it in a one-shot process, but for simplicity and since it is my first board i want to do it in 2 steps.

My board is going to be 5-ply with only one layer with a perpendicular grain. I was then going to add as many layers of glass on top and bottom to stiffen it up as needed. I was thinking 5-6 oz triaxle glass. Will my board be strong enough?

Thanks for your thoughts,

Pete


{ SHARE_ON_FACEBOOK } { SHARE_ON_TWITTER } { SHARE_ON_ORKUT } { SHARE_ON_DIGG } { SHARE_ON_MYSPACE } { SHARE_ON_DELICIOUS }
Top
Profile
 Post subject: Re: Wood layup your advice/opinion
PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 9:22 pm 
Offline
Very Frequent Poster

Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2005 6:43 pm
Posts: 672
Location: Sweden
pdkite,

My recommendation would be to v-bag the wood veneers in one step.

Then clean up the edge and set up the ABS edge- and then glue that on in a second step. This will reduce your risk of failure.

Good luck, TW


Top
Profile
 Post subject: Re: Wood layup your advice/opinion
PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 12:00 am 
Offline
Very Frequent Poster

Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2003 3:37 am
Posts: 2422
If by 5-6oz glass you mean 5 layers of 6 oz glass that is lots, even if it was foam core.
If you can find 6oz triaxial glass that would be interesting, but 2 or 3 layers might be plenty.
I have never seen light triaxial glass, only more like 18-20+oz.....
birch is strong, I have made some birch boards, with rails made of -birch- !!
It is a tough, tough wood, laminated and covered with epoxy.
I don't bash rocks & sliders though... 8)


Top
Profile
 Post subject: Re: Wood layup your advice/opinion
PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 3:25 am 
Offline
Very Frequent Poster

Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 4:39 am
Posts: 544
You may end up with a heavy board with that many layers of epoxy. If you don't do them all at one time make sure you let the epoxy fully cure then clean the surface before doing the next layer. If you put the next layer on after the first has gone past tacky you can have bonding issues with a most epoxy although I hear there are a few that don't have this issue.


Top
Profile
 Post subject: Re: Wood layup your advice/opinion
PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 10:36 pm 
Offline
Very Frequent Poster

Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2005 6:43 pm
Posts: 672
Location: Sweden
In other terms-

1. V-bag the 5 layers of wood in one shot onto form. Trim and cleanup edge
2. V-bag on the edge. Clean up. ( ive never done this step- could be problematic)
3. Bond in all your inserts- clean up
4. V-bag 2 layers 6 oz glass each side, including carbon tapes in one go. V-bag it in a "tube"- and just lay it onto your form with some light weights. The board will already have form after step one.

I made mine without the abs edge. If you treat your board right, it will last long enough until you build your next one. :)

Just don´t sand off the glass all the way to the core at the edge.


Top
Profile
 Post subject: Re: Wood layup your advice/opinion
PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 12:13 pm 
Offline
Very Frequent Poster

Joined: Fri Jul 08, 2005 3:42 am
Posts: 1026
Hi,
With 5 layers of 1/16 birch, your board is going to be so stiff you will not really need glass. That is for flat boards. If you add concave and epoxy between layers, you are now talking even stiffer. I think you will not have enough flex.

And it will also be very heavy.

People build door boards from birch without glass. I can tell you that half inch birch without glass is too stiff. On the edges you can as low as 1/4 inch total thickness (I went down to less). This gives reasonable flex without glass.

You can put thin glass on top of it for durability and water proofing, which wood boards always have problem with. But if you are thinking about laminate construction, I think birch is the wrong core material.

5-6 oz triax is hard to come by. They are normally three times and more thicker.


Top
Profile
 Post subject: Re: Wood layup your advice/opinion
PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 3:10 pm 
Offline
Medium Poster

Joined: Mon Apr 14, 2008 7:47 pm
Posts: 145
Agree with what's been said. For wood boards, keep it simple. If you plan on laying glass, why not make a foam core board? Much lighter for the same work load. Have you considered adding glass between wood layers to save time.

Tri-ax is usually ~20oz. Forget about that. Stick with 4oz on wood.


Top
Profile
 Post subject: Re: Wood layup your advice/opinion
PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 12:43 am 
Offline
Frequent Poster
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 26, 2004 6:50 pm
Posts: 480
Location: Wolfe Island Canada
That should be a nice board. Where did you get birch veneer like that?

I suggest do the inserts after you get the 5 layer core all good. You will be doing some shaping after that anyway.
Are you going for the all wood look or paint over it all?
If the birch is decent stuff keep it woody all the way. You will not need much glass as the core will be plenty strong.
Since this is your first board don't get greedy and do it all at once. Baby steps are good until you get your procedure wired. Test your epoxy before you commit to the full layup as well and follow the instructions to the best of your ability. A little postal scale with 1gm increments is a must.

Chime in on yahoo group board builders if you want even more ides.

Cheers
Stan


Top
Profile
 Post subject: Re: Wood layup your advice/opinion
PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 2:47 am 
Offline
Frequent Poster

Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2008 8:51 pm
Posts: 365
thx for all the advice guys! i did build my board this winter, finished (sorta) in january. props to my dad for all his help and expertise. This was actually a school project in a drafting course. i designed the board and then had to produce it. my friend made a long board with his veneers. www.forloversofwood.com

aight so basically i took my 1/16" wood veneers which were ~1' wide and cut and fit them to produce my 39cm wide board (the bottom is 3 pieces for example). the joints are offset so the board won't have a weak line right down the center.
i originally planned for only 4 layers but ended up going with 5. the entirety of the board is a minimum of 3 layers thick. the middle of those layers has the grain running 90 degrees for strength. the top two layers are smaller to produce a flex pattern. each layer was glued together with about 200 grams of epoxy

i built a rocker table with concave to give my veneers shape.

inserts were set on the 1st layer then holes drilled in the others. this kept all the pieces in place while i v-bagged them. i also put some glass patches around them inbetween layers 2 and three.
as for my v-bag setup it was def ghetto :P i used some procured polyethylene (greenhouse plastic) and an old vacuum pump i had lying around the barn. we did a dry run to figure things out then went all in. rocker table and board went in the bag. we triple taped the seems, and made rather elaborate tape seal around the hose we simply stuck in. we hit a max of a bout -15 bar and it avereaged around 9-10ish. we bagged it pump running for around 3 hours the turned the pump off. in the morning there was still about 3 bar in the bag.

i wasn't really going for strength to weight but i wanted the shape mostly that a v-bag could give me.

i cut out my desired shape, sanded and then glassed top and bottom with 4 oz biax. the entire board is 5.7 pounds with glass.

the red parts are just stained (before the v-bagging and glassing). i am probably adding 2 more layers of glass on top because it is way to flexy for my likings. i wanted a stiff freestyle board.

overall i love it, and i can't wait to ride it. i learned so much and my dad and i are stoked to biuld another one too.

here is the kinda finished product it measures 129ish by 39ish has 4.3 cm of rocker a 4.5 mm concave :


Attachments:
File comment: a good look at the bottom befor glassing. with glass the birch looks amazing!
DSC06681.JPG
DSC06681.JPG [ 1.66 MIB | Viewed 1649 times ]
File comment: glassing the top
DSC06696.JPG
DSC06696.JPG [ 1.89 MIB | Viewed 1648 times ]
File comment: my ghetto setup
DSC06665.JPG
DSC06665.JPG [ 2.13 MIB | Viewed 1649 times ]
File comment: rocker table with concave form
DSC06653.JPG
DSC06653.JPG [ 2.26 MIB | Viewed 1650 times ]
DSC_0077.JPG
DSC_0077.JPG [ 214.71 KIB | Viewed 1651 times ]
File comment: 3 layers thick at the tips, 5 in the center
DSC_0078.JPG
DSC_0078.JPG [ 187.72 KIB | Viewed 1649 times ]
Top
Profile
 Post subject: Re: Wood layup your advice/opinion
PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 7:52 pm 
Offline
Very Frequent Poster

Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2003 3:37 am
Posts: 2422
Cool! Thanks for putting it up. Really it looks good for a first one.


Top
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic
 [ 12 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC + 1 hour


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group