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Bow history and patent

what bothers you?
anything to say without your name?

keep flaming - here's your chance !


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alexrider
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Re: Bow history and patent

Postby alexrider » Tue May 05, 2009 10:05 pm

spork wrote:
alexrider wrote:Just as an example amongst hundreds to illustrate the point: the Wright Brothers patented their plane (which by-the-way was not their invention, as usually is).


Really? Have you seen their patent? Do you know what it claims? I thought not.

Came First World War, the US Air Force (was it called such then?) had to buy the far more advanced European made airplanes which did not suffer from the patent restrictions preventing free competition.


If they bought them for use in the U.S. they were subject to the exact same patents as any other.

This forum is about flaming, isn't it?


It appears so. Is that your purpose here?



Thanks for posting those links. It saves me having to wonder if you're a complete nut job. I now realize you want all the pharmaceutical companies to stop all research, all authors to stop writing books, all producers to stop making movies...


Hi Spork,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wright ... patent_war

You are living in a culture where nothing can be conceived if not for material profit. There was a time when doctors, and teachers, and musicians and all the people who had other passion than making money did their craft as a dedication.
I have the extreme privilege to live part of the year in Bali. Here people create and re-create beautiful artworks as they have for centuries and remain remarkably quite immune to western influences. Come dirty western businessmen to patent their traditional designs and try to prevent Balinese artists to continue doing as they always did. And they have the outrageous cynicism to blame the Balinese not to have adapted and learned about copyright laws.
BTW what's the point of doing research for life saving drugs if their use is denied to the vast majority of people who needs them?
The very finest musicians don't give a damn about the business side. If they did they wouldn't be artists. A live music is worth more than million CDs.
Come on Spork; travel a bit and hear other mindsets.
Cheers
Alex
Aloha Open Source

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Re: Bow history and patent

Postby spork » Tue May 05, 2009 10:12 pm

I have to admit that I'm too indoctrinated into the modern/western culture to be able to consider such possibilities as practical realities. Within our current system your ideas strike me as fanciful. Perhaps given enough distance and time I could imagine such a philosophy making sense. But I have to confess, I find it hard to imagine that works on a large scale in a practical sense. Afterall, artists must be paid for their work just as bricklayers are.

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alexrider
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Re: Bow history and patent

Postby alexrider » Tue May 05, 2009 10:31 pm

deleted
Last edited by alexrider on Wed May 06, 2009 5:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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alexrider
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Re: Bow history and patent

Postby alexrider » Tue May 05, 2009 10:34 pm

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Last edited by alexrider on Tue May 05, 2009 10:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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alexrider
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Re: Bow history and patent

Postby alexrider » Tue May 05, 2009 10:35 pm

spork wrote:I have to admit that I'm too indoctrinated into the modern/western culture to be able to consider such possibilities as practical realities. Within our current system your ideas strike me as fanciful. Perhaps given enough distance and time I could imagine such a philosophy making sense. But I have to confess, I find it hard to imagine that works on a large scale in a practical sense. Afterall, artists must be paid for their work just as bricklayers are.


Laying bricks is a work. Art isn't and shouldn't. Nor sport. A big discussion on the meaning of Olympics (the modern ones) could follow. I've got strong opinions there too.
I am also lucky to live in Thailand, a very Buddhist country. Long time ago I read a very interesting little book called Buddhist Economy, reminding of Schumacher's Small is Beautiful. There was the example of the street cleaner, who does the job because the street needs cleaning. His pay came afterward as a necessary consequence, not as an objective. Same for artists. If they are talented and music is their aim, resources will come to them for sure. Lou Wainman is such an example in the kiting world.
I am an idealist perhaps. That's why I like kitesurfing. It can be a metaphor for many things.
Cheers
Alex

and yet another link on the subject:
http://www.againstmonopoly.org/

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Re: Bow history and patent

Postby spork » Tue May 05, 2009 11:03 pm

alexrider wrote:Laying bricks is a work. Art isn't and shouldn't.



I think you'll find the line is plenty blurry between art and work. I'm also a pretty big fan of the free market. If someone wishes to produce and sell their art, and someone else wishes to buy it, why should we stop that?

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Re: Bow history and patent

Postby DrLightWind » Wed May 06, 2009 4:55 am

You are living in a culture where nothing can be conceived if not for material profit.
There was a time when doctors, and teachers, and musicians and all the people who had other passion than making money did their craft as a dedication.
I have the extreme privilege to live part of the year in Bali.
Here people create and re-create beautiful artworks as they have for centuries and remain
remarkably quite immune to western influences.

:thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:
A lot of doctors are no more than paid mouthpieces for the drug industry
Nowadays they are no longer 'Doctors' in t/true meaning of t/word,
but transparent “pharmaceutical (puppets) representatives”

In this day and age, where the trend to move away from Western medicine
toward a healthier path to health
The term "traditional" is the most accurate description for this array
of Healing Arts that not only transcend time,
but also are integrated in the Philosophy and way of life.

Ancient energetic type healings does not try to "take over"
any of the natural functions and defense mechanisms
in existence within the human body.
For example the fallacy that TCM is in fact an "alternative" medicine lies
in the misrepresentation of "conventional" medicine which, in fact,
is a younger and more recent aspect of medicine.
TCM is an ancient old form of healing and therapy and should thus be
the one called conventional by mere respect to its deep-rooted
cultural and historical background.

DrLightWind

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Re: Bow history and patent

Postby spork » Wed May 06, 2009 5:01 am

If your alternative, hollistic, energetic, homeopathic, traditional remedies outperform western medicine in double blind tests I'm all for them. But I've noticed they tend not to subject themselves to any such scrutiny.

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Re: Bow history and patent

Postby alexrider » Wed May 06, 2009 2:59 pm

spork wrote:
alexrider wrote:Laying bricks is a work. Art isn't and shouldn't.


I think you'll find the line is plenty blurry between art and work. I'm also a pretty big fan of the free market. If someone wishes to produce and sell their art, and someone else wishes to buy it, why should we stop that?


I am not the least suggesting to forbid anyone selling their artistic creation. Good for the artist. I object however governments to interfere and legislate with what should remain a private domain.
A renowned board shaper is a sort of artist. You and I don't have any objection buying his creations, do we? Because of the reputation he's built as a specialist in his domain, he wouldn't find any advantage patenting his works.
After your objection, I read the Wright wiki page again. It is quite illustrative of how much their patent war damaged their credibility and their innovative work. Worth reading really. On a different but parallel topic (drugs) found another link which could make people think twice before taking patents for granted. Extracted from: http://yaleglobal.yale.edu/display.article?id=5015
"On May 6, 1981, Indira Gandhi declared India's policy when she said her "idea of a better world is one in which medical discoveries would be free from patent and there will be no profiteering from life and death." ". I believe too that there are indeed some fields of industry (arms!) which cannot be exploited for individual interests with government's protection and support.
Having said that I applaud the Wrights accomplishments as well as the Legaignoux. Perhaps the French brothers would find the Wright's patent saga inspirational.
Aloha
Alex
Last edited by alexrider on Wed May 06, 2009 6:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Bow history and patent

Postby spork » Wed May 06, 2009 3:29 pm

alexrider wrote:I am not the least suggesting to forbid anyone selling their artistic creation


No. You're simply lobbying that the government make it legal for us to steal their work.


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