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 Post subject: Free Range Chicken Hook...idea feedback requested
PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2009 5:42 pm 
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A couple of weeks ago, I got interested in the Dynabar thread:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2355507

Soooo, I dug into my old-parts-bin and started tinkering up some "Frankenbars" with which to experiment, in an attempt to find out whether or not I would like kiteboarding with a "sliding hook" style spreader bar. Like other Kiteforum members, who gave testimonials in the Dynabar thread, I liked the feeling and can see the merit of such a device for certain groups of kiters...in particular (1) those using a seat harness, who want to comfortably ride toeside, (2) those who like a "looser" feel to their kiting, (3) those who like low-wind kiting, and (4) those who want a more "adjustable" pull from the kite, in order to rest and relax their back, knees and legs, by allowing freedom from being "locked" into position, and (5) those who want the option of riding Unhooked.

The following pictures show the results of my experimentation, during which I used 5 different prototypes...all of which used rope to support the “slider” (sliding ring, anchor shackle, nylon-covered Tylaska release shackle, or in the present case...the releasable hook). I have been pleasantly surprised by how nicely these different rings and shackles slide along the spectra rope, without the use of a pulley. I won't get into the merits of the different "sliders", right now. Also, I have been surprised by the lack of a need for a bungee, to return the "slider" to the center of the bar. I have also been pleased by the ease of repairing or replacing the integral parts of these devices, with easily obtained and inexpensive items, like rope, rings, PVC pipe, etc. The whole roped-slider-bar cost less that $10.

The pictures illustrate the basic features, required to satisfy the goal of the Freerange Chicken Hook Spreader Bar design, which are (1) Unhooked riding, (2) Hook sliding, (3) Chicken Hook-to-bar orientation, and (4) Roped Spreader bar use.

Pictures of another desirable feature, designed for additional safety, the "Escape Rope" release device can be viewed at the end of the Dynabar thread. This feature allows the rope to be released in case of an emergency.

My goal is presenting these pictures is not to suggest that this is a marketable, finished item, or to promote the idea as being suitable for all kiters, but to stimulate ideas and criticism, which could lead to the development of a "well turned" product, manufactured by an innovative company, such as Dynabar.

Enough said…here are the first three pictures, showing the "rope bar" and "chicken hook" in action.

Each post only allows 3 pictures, so the pictures will be presented in the next 4 posts:


Attachments:
1.JPG
1.JPG [ 110.73 KIB | Viewed 1264 times ]
hook upside down 1.JPG
hook upside down 1.JPG [ 117.69 KIB | Viewed 1264 times ]
hook upside down 2.JPG
hook upside down 2.JPG [ 120.48 KIB | Viewed 1265 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Free Range Chicken Hook...idea feedback requested
PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2009 5:49 pm 
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The next two pictures show the release (Slingshot Surefire hook) features of the system:


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release 1.JPG
release 1.JPG [ 118.69 KIB | Viewed 1257 times ]
release 2.JPG
release 2.JPG [ 121.74 KIB | Viewed 1253 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Free Range Chicken Hook...idea feedback requested
PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2009 5:54 pm 
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This picture shows the "free range" of the "slider" positioned over the rider's hip bone. This position is great for riding toe-side:


Attachments:
3.JPG
3.JPG [ 115.59 KIB | Viewed 1248 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Free Range Chicken Hook...idea feedback requested
PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2009 6:06 pm 
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These pictures show the "orientation" device in action. This particular device is shown only to demonstrate the concept of "automatic repositioning" of the chicken hook, lightly locking it onto the bar, in order to allow hooking back in, after the rider unhooks and "busts a move". A proper "orientation" device could be modeled after the one Naish developed a couple of years ago. Any other ideas??

The model I have shown here could be a real finger pincher, if your hand was located in the center of the bar, and the bar was pulled to full power, or if the hook release was accidentally triggered. The exact details of the design should be thoroughly tested to prevent finger pinching.


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6.JPG
6.JPG [ 117.45 KIB | Viewed 1247 times ]
7.JPG
7.JPG [ 117.5 KIB | Viewed 1248 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Free Range Chicken Hook...idea feedback requested
PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2009 6:25 pm 
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This system using a hook where a loop has traditionally been used may seem strange and radical...

Has anyone seen such a system before?

The concept reminds me of the early days of windsurfing, before the "harness line" was invented. In the mid 1970s, I remember reading about a device called the "Cuban Hook", which extended out and around the boom and thereby allowed the rider to rest his arms. This device never went anywhere, and was discarded in favor of the hook-and-line design, still used today. My idea may have been tried before and discarded,...like the "Cuban Hook. If so, I would like to know the details.


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 Post subject: Re: Free Range Chicken Hook...idea feedback requested
PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2009 9:03 pm 
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interesting idea! it might actually work.

i wouldn't worry much about pinching my finger, it can be easily avoided by making the bar with some kind of bulge around hole for the rope. more disturbing is the idea of a moving open hook with power of the kite on it. you don't want to pinch something in your groin or hook up something wrong e.g. west, watch, you ribs or jaw :nono:

so safe design is really important.

winds


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 Post subject: Re: Free Range Chicken Hook...idea feedback requested
PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2009 12:26 am 
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Location: PBKiteboarding.com Sales-Repair-Lessons Ozone, Aboards, Flysurfer, OR, Canada USA Worlwide
But always good to see new ideas... you never know...

I think they don't do the hook on the bar side since it can hook onto your finger or harness, someone else's kite - line and so on accidentally if it comes off the rope (runaway kites)... Like the kite is the fishing rode and the bar the float and hook... A loop wont get caught on much the way it is now...


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 Post subject: Re: Free Range Chicken Hook...idea feedback requested
PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2009 1:12 am 
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should be called Fried Kook Chicken H :lol: :nono: :jump: ook


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 Post subject: Re: Free Range Chicken Hook...idea feedback requested
PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2009 12:08 pm 
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It doesn't look good on many levels.
EDIT (now I have more time) :
A rope is difficult to hit with the hook. 2 ropes are worse, do you hook two or one?
The bar alignment is better to align using the hole in the bar, not the outer surface.
The Q/r is slightly hard to handle and your hand might get damaged.
The rope will be springy in the centre, which might give kite control problems.
It looks difficult to unhook?


Windwing have a clip-on system with a safety release that slides off it to release. Combine that with a single curved rod spreader bar which someone previously posted a photo of and you have a working system. You can see the CC bar in this video. A slot would need to be cut at the base of the red release to allow the bar to slide into it when clamped.




I guess the Dynabar bungees are for dampening the movement, rather than for returning the hook to the centre, but I may be wrong on that. Some kind of dampening would be useful, especially at the ends of the travel.

I liked Kevin Salters waveriding setup, for people who dont need to unhook, and it could be adapted by speading the ends of the rope apart on the spreader bar, and using the Windwing clip, but it would need to clip on a ring on the rope to avoid jamming or excessive wear.


Attachments:
CCsystem.jpg
CCsystem.jpg [ 21.73 KIB | Viewed 407 times ]


Last edited by ronnie on Sun May 24, 2009 4:22 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Free Range Chicken Hook...idea feedback requested
PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2009 2:12 pm 
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Good concept :thumb:

But I'm concerning when you have the Sure Fire Release as a CL.
#1) How quickly could you release it since it's not stationary & moves around,
when sh!t hits the fan :?:
#2) Also when you release it since your palm and fingers are there,
maybe there a possibility to get injured during the process of release Hmmmm....
Just because I've seen a lot of nasty hand injuries ending up with stiches,
from releasing kites.

So because of my 2 concerns above woudn't be better to keep the CL simple as is
and to do the release at the spreader bar like on the Pick you had earlier
which could be built iside the hollow spreader bar :?: :idea:
That would be maybe safer and less expensive according my gut feeling,
without the complication of altering the stock bars with the CL.
Just a thought since there are so many type CL lines out there,
like single double and like CAB with a plastic on it etc.
Plus you're altering the manufacturer's bars
and maybe violating their warranty.

DrLW


Attachments:
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Escape Rope spreader bar.jpg [ 317.85 KIB | Viewed 714 times ]
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