12kite wrote: that a was a lot of work
Excatly 11 months.to RichardM,
I understand your point of view except one thing: how on Earth do you dare to compare kitesurfing to cannibalism
Shame on you!
I would associate it with passion and love. Some guys believe that a good wave session is better than a night with let’s say: Naomi.
I see a logic in your explanations but I do not know how it would be implemented nowadays. No the slightest chance – be realistic. I believe that we can discuss it on a rather academic level than a practical one. Such discussion will help to others to understand the binding rules and their justification
Please find my replies to your points:
1. I do not see a chance and reasons to change the present rules on the waves. Please note that nobody complains about it and a collision level on the waves is marginal. Why to change it? It would only bring more CONFUSION and you do not like it.
2. You are right – ROW should be simple. I do not know how to write it in a more simple way.
The rules proposed by me have a few exceptions that are described in details in the Part II (the comments). Reading the comments you may have feeling that there are too many exceptions but these comments are dedicated for beginners who cannot predict what is awaiting for them out there - on the water.
You, as the experienced one, do not need to read it. I could hide all exceptions in the rule responsibility and it would be simple great – but my intentions are different. I would like to give answers for most possible situations met on the water.
The point is that EVERBODY should know Part I very well to use the same language. This is a matter of the compatibility
Look at it in this way: the present situation is like a buying a computer: Microsoft or Apple. Any choice creates restrictions just at the starting point.
I propose to standardise the rules to speak the same world-wide language.
Let’s imagine: you travel to the new spot, see the standard board with additional info stating: “Rule 3 (Shore Zone) overrides Rule 7(Wave) on this spot due to difficult impact zone conditions and narrow space”.
You do not like the spot and move to another one located in the vicinity. You see the same board without any extra notifications.
Well, just one look on the board and you know what is going on there and how to obey on the water.
3. Your agreement has disappointed me. I would prefer to hear any objections in this matter.
4. Waves – please read the wise notes presented by Windrider in this topic. The sentence you quoted was taken actually from the rules by KF.com
It is not the best-formatted sentence but I fully agree with these rules.
5. Actually all people seeing my book and posters reckon the presented rules are SIMPLE and LOGIC. They see the kiteregs have great potential to improve SAFETY as they are based on binding customs and common sense.
6. You are right that CONFUSION cannot help to promote good values. I wrote about it in point no.2.
7. Banning is very simple as breaching of following rules results in:Rule 3
– one month of cleaning a local beach; Rule 4
– punctured a main tube for each offence;Rule 7
– a life sentence as a beach-boy pumping kites to others
The “banning” is just a lack of acceptance in a local society. That’s it. Nobody is going to give fines or yellow cards. But on other hand I would not hesitate to be “involved” when it may be necessary. Once I had a situation on a beach I ride (it’s is a kind of reserved beach for local owners). One guy (newbee) appeared with an old 20m C-shape during 20-25kts onshore winds. Helmet, board leash, floating vest, gloves, boots etc. The beach was overcrowded with sunbathers and he wanted to rig his gear in the center of the beach. 700m away there was almost empty beach. As I have never seen this chap before I kindly asked him to give up with kiting in such conditions and in this place. It did not work so I just deflated his kite by opening the main plug. I am not going to describe what was happening later… Anyway I prefer to ban any idiot on my spot then to be banned as a kitesurfer by a local people due to such idiot.
8. I am sorry but there is no way to specify who is going out
and coming in
during on-shore winds. Imagine the spot like Hel when during prevailing summer on-shore winds a few hundreds people ride on kitesurfing, windsurfing, water skis, jets skis in a 300 zone. All of WS and KS ride on the parallel courses to the shore. Madness!
I would say that a half would be going out
of THEIR MINDS and the second half would be coming in
to SUICIDE CONCLUSIONS. With rapidly growth of kitesurfing we can expected most of popular spots looking like the Hel(l).
There must be a clear rule.
Outbound or inbound division would bring only CONFUSION (and you do not like it).
9. Fine. There is something we agree. I cannot resist to tell you about a small analyse I carried out a year ago in Poland. I asked two dozens of IKO approved instructors about this rule. One third gave me a wrong answer. I was in shock to hear it. Then I checked with the competitors and the results were even worse – a half was wrong. It was one of the main reasons to begin to write my book.
For the rest of points I will answer later. I need to work in the meantime
As you know, I'm especially argumentative and obnoxious, so I'll make another stab at convincing you of my views (obviously impossible considering the amount of work you've already invested in this project). However, at least some other kiters may grasp the REAL and more subtle problem
associated with giving waveriders the ROW.
The MAIN reason why outgoing riders should have the ROW is because they are generally the "least maneuverable vessel" which I'm sure you'll agree is the basis for all LEGAL maritime rules concerning ROW. (see post on page 2)
If you have ANY ONE rule which is as easy to follow in virtually EVERY CIRCUMSTANCE
as "THE LESS MANEUVERABLE VESSEL (KITER) HAS THE ROW and when it doubt, yield", you have not yet stated it.IMPORTANT ACCESS ISSUE:
The reason why I find this issue important is because I'm always also extremely concerned about ACCESS for ALL kiters, not JUST those with a certain level of technical proficiency
(note that I did NOT refer to these people as necessarily "good" kiters).
By giving waveriders the ROW, newbies and less technically proficient riders are told NOT to kite at waveriding locations
because they tend to interfere with waveriders who then fall back on the incorrect theory that they have the ROW and are therefore justified in calling the " ROW rule" breakers "kooks" and "UNSAFE" kiters who should be prevented from using "their" spot. This is in fact a smokescreen for a form of localism motivated by the selfish desire to limit kiters at "their" locations for their OWN BENEFIT.
I'm only concerned with beaches which are PUBLIC. Private beaches can do whatever they want. However, the LEGAL fact of the matter is that at a PUBLIC beach EVERY kiter, REGARDLESS of technical proficiency, has EXACTLY the SAME right to use the PUBLIC resource
as a pro or anyone who THINKS they're a pro.
If a less proficient kiter is doing anything that's unsafe for NON-kiters, they can be told the error of their ways and if uncooperative, reported to whatever LEGAL authority controls the location. 99.9% of the time, they will be cooperative. The fact that it is INCONVENIENT
for the technically proficient waveriders to avoid them is NOT the SLIGHTEST reason to try to prevent these kiters from utilizing a PUBLIC resource.
As to your argument that waveriders' influence is already so great that the basic principle of THE LESS MANEUVERABLE VESSEL (KITER) HAS THE ROW", must be sacrificed for the LESS SAFE
benefit of waveriders, you may be correct.
However, this does NOT MAKE IT RIGHT
. Just because someone went to an island where, for example, all the natives were cannibals, doesn't mean that cannibalism is GOOD, it just means that you're agreeing that cannibalism is necessary so YOU don't get eaten
(or in this case, not sell your signs). (I'm on a diet so food is on my mind)
As to your numbered responses to my previous responses (getting hard to keep track) I'll respond briefly as follows: (for anyone interested, the numbers refer to my post on page 4)
1. "nobody complains about it". First, my name is Richard, not "nobody". Second, how do you reconcile this quote with your statements in # 9 of your post?
2. As I've repeatedly stated, there is NO simpler rule than
" "THE LESS MANEUVERABLE VESSEL (KITER) HAS THE ROW and when it doubt, yield", and if there is, you have not yet stated it.
3. Sorry. I'll find something else.
4. Again, just because a bunch of influential but selfish elitists want to limit access for their own benefit
, DOES NOT MAKE IT RIGHT.
5. Obviously, not all. At one point in history, if you asked EVERYONE if they thought the world was flat, they'd have agreed with you, it doesn't mean that they're correct.
6. Thanks for agreeing that the SIMPLEST solution is the best in that it avoids the most confusion.
7. Your attitude is uncivilized, ILLEGAL, ineffective and very likely to negatively affect authorities as altercations/fights come to their attention.
A better solution to the problem you describe would have been to urge non-kiters in the danger zone to move and/or be ready to move when (if) the idiot actually attempted to launch. Depending upon what happened, you might call the authorities to report his unsafe behavior and/or an ambulance. Assuming that you had a physical altercation with the idiot, it could have ended very badly in many ways, not the least with your arrest and/or substantial financial liability.
8. There are very few
locations such as Hel and they make up less than .01% of the total kitesurfing areas. 99% of the time you can easily tell outgoing from incoming riders even in on shore conditions - especially when dealing with SURF (the main concern herein).
9. It's comforting that you admit that almost HALF of the PROFESSIONALS you surveyed did NOT AGREE WITH YOU.
Malibu Kitesurfing - since 2002
(310) - 430 - KITE (5483)http://www.MalibuKitesurfing.NETkfRichard@MalibuKitesurfing.NET