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 Post subject: 19m Silver Arrow collapse
PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 7:25 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2006 11:23 pm
Posts: 526
Location: Bantham, South Devon, UK
just getting a bit peeved with my 19m flysurfer SA (2008) recently.

Twice now the wingtips have collapsed and folded in on a downstroke. The kite then heads fast for the deck and more often than not, continues to fold in, ,making re leaunch impossible.

Okay so the wingtips are stalling....would it be just because of a sharp lull?? or are their any trimming ideas out there that will improve this?

Conditions were 12 - 16mph and good to fully powered. Experienced kiter.

Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: 19m Silver Arrow collapse
PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 9:44 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 5:00 pm
Posts: 125
Location: Austin,TX USA
A buddy of mine had this exact same problem with his Flysurfer. Check the internal cross-bracing. One of the internal braces was torn on his kite and causing the kite's shape to deform. It was tear on the cross-bracing near one of the inlets, blowout thingies, or zippers (i forgot which), so he was able to get to it easy, tape it, and that did the trick.

As far as what I saw his kite do:
It was on the downstroke when he was riding to his right. The trailing edge and wingtips would fold in, and the kite would backstall then collapse onto the water. After some coaxing he could relaunch and ride the other direction without issue.


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 Post subject: Re: 19m Silver Arrow collapse
PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 9:55 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2008 2:57 am
Posts: 54
coaxing and relaunch - yeah, if it didn't bow tie on you. I still haven't been able to untangle my SA 19. During my long swim I had the opportunity to think about what was better - walking up the beach with an inflatable that could not keep upwind or swimming in with the mess that was my SA 19...


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 Post subject: Re: 19m Silver Arrow collapse
PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 10:00 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 5:00 pm
Posts: 125
Location: Austin,TX USA
Oh yeah..

I forgot to mention he was on a 12 or 13m Psycho 2 or 3 in winds in the low 20s, so he had plenty of wind to help the coaxing...


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 Post subject: Re: 19m Silver Arrow collapse
PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 10:22 pm 
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Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2007 9:33 pm
Posts: 910
Location: europe
do a mixer test? may be u have to tune the bridles with a mixer test...
in snowkiting, when i got it my speed² ears kept folding (tip tucking) and the kite falling on the ground, i put the stability mixer test and no problem at all after that, the kite is less aggressive in unconsistant wind but more stable for my mountains winds (lake and snow)

http://www.youtube.com/user/vaudou74#pl ... CJPBcxEhdI

or that kind?:

http://www.youtube.com/user/vaudou74#pl ... ae-6gygL9U

oh btw, it happens....did u close the zipper well and put it under the little tissu square? :p


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 Post subject: Re: 19m Silver Arrow collapse
PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 10:47 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2006 11:23 pm
Posts: 526
Location: Bantham, South Devon, UK
yeah I do that but thanks peeps - will look at the bracing inside and go through the bridle carfully

cheers :thumb:

oh and mixer test?? what the hells that?


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 Post subject: Re: 19m Silver Arrow collapse
PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 11:06 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2003 1:00 am
Posts: 717
Problems like this with ram air kites, particularly Silver Arrows in light winds, are disturbingly common. Unfortunately the truth doesn't get out. Horrendous problems with light wind collapse, folding in gusty conditions, and long swim-ins with a waterlogged unlaunchable kite are routine.

The truth doesn't get out because of lies perpetrated on this, and other forums, by Flysurfer and Peter Lynn reps and importers.

Ignore the lies. Ram airs are inferior compared to inflatables and nothing can change this.


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 Post subject: Re: 19m Silver Arrow collapse
PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 11:13 pm 
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Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2007 9:33 pm
Posts: 910
Location: europe
the mixer test is done when the bridles shortened after a while , it s used to put the kite back in shape by changing the bridles lenght. thus u can use a flysurfer kites for ages.
i guess you r an english speaker:

http://www.flysurfer.ca/Files/File/Support/MixerTestEN.jpg


the walktrough, not complicated, just take your time, get a friend if you r small :) it helps .
takes around 15/20mn, u do it when your kite has some strange behaviour (2ns hand kites, stable mixer, 30/35 scessions ), do it on both sides.

i shortened the B 3cm for my ride.

i don t like flysurfer kites much ( well, my speed²) but it s still the best at its job...if i can get rid of the bridles and the mixer test and get the same performance , i ll take it lol


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 Post subject: Re: 19m Silver Arrow collapse
PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 11:24 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2002 1:00 am
Posts: 565
Location: Crystal Palace
Symptoms sound like a mixer test is needed - really is a quick process - as voodoo has linked to. Once done you shouldn't get any of those probs. Tip tucking I think is because the c line gets too long - seen it on Psycho 3's, quick mixer adjustment and never see it again

Flown a SA in wind going from 0 to about 8 knts, kite would drop out of air onto it's TE, I'd wait a minute or so for the next bit of wind, relaunch (lots of yanking on the centre line) ride for a minute or two then repeat.


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 Post subject: Re: 19m Silver Arrow collapse
PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 12:42 am 
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Joined: Mon Aug 12, 2002 1:00 am
Posts: 1771
Location: Miami @ 6" Flat Butter!
Pike wrote:
oh and mixer test?? what the hells that?

You could to take advantage of this high performance light wind killer kite,
if you would learn more about the right set up for the condition from foilzone for foil kites
You will get all the help you need and you could do search under mixer test how to do it.
There are a lot of thread with pictures and help how to do it.
http://www.foilzone.com/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=1
Ignore the Chump me up rhetoric he likes to stir up sh!t here :!:

The only time I experienced tip tuck on the Speed2 kites when the mixer is not set right,
or flying it out of the window by flyers error in light winds, which takes time to get used to.

DrLW


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