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 Post subject: Re: Near fatal accident at sandbanks, poole
PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:58 pm 
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Location: South East Aus
This is really sad, and I wish the guy a speedy and full recovery.

Even more sad is the fact that I've seen exactly the same thing happen at Sandbanks before. About 3 years ago I witnessed a young guy, probably around 17, hot-launch his foil kite in about 20-25 knots of wind directly downwind of himself. Even more frightening was the fact that his kite was on the Northern end of the sandy 'beach' in the harbour, meaning that he only had to be dragged/lofted about 5 meters before he reached the low boundary wall and then the road.

As it happens, he was dragged onto and across the road, across the path of (luckily slowly) oncoming vehicles, after which his kite got tangled in a tree and he was able to release it. He was lucky and escaped with minor scrapes, but it could have ended so much worse as he wasn't wearing a helmet.

Wake up people!


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 Post subject: Re: Near fatal accident at sandbanks, poole
PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 8:07 pm 
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Just to set the record straight, I posted this as a way of letting people know that if your not sure or don't think things are right, then pack up, go home and live to fight another day.

I've seen this now happen about 4 times over the past couple of years on LEI, SLE and not a foil ( I'm a local, and have kited at this spot for the last 4 years) people need to wake up and see that yes, its a great sport to do and watch, but there is an underlying danger that fall to the kiter to take. Its up to you at the end of the day to launch or not.

As for the person who hide's behind the user name of "pump me up", you sir are a Fucking Cunt.
I don't use's this lightly. someone life has been changed forever, due to something they thought would never happen, and you use this to make some kind of sick point.

I hope that were will be some light at the end of the tunnel for this poor guy, and that his recovery is swift. All my best to him.


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 Post subject: Re: Near fatal accident at sandbanks, poole
PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 8:33 pm 
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Location: Argentina
Ismo wrote:
kitester wrote:
The closer to the edge the WW a kite flies the more susceptible it can be to gusts and direction changes in the wind.

no.



yes! imagine a perfect kite, zero drag, so it sits perpendicular to the wind direction.
shift 1 degree the wind direction. Now your kite has negative AoA!, slack lines and the kite goes into the powerzone



Still, besides evaluating properly the situation, i think a big problem is hot launching.
I fly both leis and foils. Don't know why, but when the wind is not strong i also hot launch the foil, despite i'd never do it with a lei. For some reasons it sounds crazy with it, but not with foils! strange...

i guess it's because while finishing inflating, it flies slower (or by pulling the rear lines), so i feel i am under control. but i still get dragged!
thinking about it, i could easily slip and start getting dragged on my back!... from now on, no more hot launchs for me.


I wish the guy a fast and full recovery

pablo


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 Post subject: Re: Near fatal accident at sandbanks, poole
PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 4:18 am 
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Foils can be hot launched as long as it is not inflated. The kite then inflates on its way to the zenith, slowly powering up as it gets into more and more of the "right" shape before getting completely inflated at the zenith.

In high wind conditions, however it can be very dangerous.

How much space is there downwind at the sandpoole site?

Hope the guy gets a full recovery.


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 Post subject: Re: Near fatal accident at sandbanks, poole
PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 4:25 am 
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Location: Malibu
When accidents like this happen people often ask "Why did he not activate the safety release?"

Things happen really fast ... no really really fast.

We all need to become as fast as gun slingers when it comes to using the safety release.

As drivers of cars or motorbikes we are all very good at using the breaks of our car, but that is becasue we use them all the time when driving normally.
When ever you are starttled when driving your foot goes straight for the break, almost without thinking.
Unfortunatley when it comes to kiting there is no repetative use of the safety release.
Chances are you won't need it for months at a time.

For this reason I came up with a thing I call Safety Release Reflex. SRR.
Basicly what I recommend is to regularly seek, find and get a grip on your safety
so as to develop a natural reflex.

I do this all the time. I sort of made a point of doing this after every move, jump, nice wave set etc.

SRR...I firmly think that it is something we all have to adopt.
I think it is particularly important for everyone, but in particular for talented riders that progress really quickly. For them what happens is that they progress to levels that put them into challenging conditions and unlike a slower learner the sort of don't have the time for "kiting wisdom" to build up. (no offence intended with wisdom).

Here is my original thread discussing the "technique".

viewtopic.php?f=82&t=2357453

Good winds to everyone and make sure you pactice your SRR :thumb:

That said... SRR is no substitute for being carefull and makeing good judgements... it's just one more thing to help.


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 Post subject: Re: Near fatal accident at sandbanks, poole
PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 4:38 am 
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stanroc wrote:
Foils can be hot launched as long as it is not inflated. The kite then inflates on its way to the zenith, slowly powering up as it gets into more and more of the "right" shape before getting completely inflated at the zenith.

In high wind conditions, however it can be very dangerous.

How much space is there downwind at the sandpoole site?

Hope the guy gets a full recovery.


Just wanted to make an addition here.

Foils can be launched straight downwind when the wind is low enough, but not all foils.
Peter Lynn Arc Kites absolutley cannot be launched uninflated stright downwind.
Downwind launch for Peter Lynn Arcs will be pretty hot in rideable winds. I don't recommend it.
Also at the edge of the wind window they need to be very well inflated to be stable whe launching.

When it comes to Flysurfers (Speed 1 and later kites) when launching them straight downwind
they should be partially inflated... about 25%.
When launched you should also keep the bar pulled in hard enough to keep them partially stalled
and let them climb gradually up to the Zenith.
Done this way you can downwind launch in moderate winds without getting pulled much at all.

In powered up conditions a self side launch is the best way to go.


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 Post subject: Re: Near fatal accident at sandbanks, poole
PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 6:29 am 
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FredBGG wrote:
Foils can be launched straight downwind when the wind is low enough, but not all foils.
Peter Lynn Arc Kites absolutley cannot be launched uninflated stright downwind.
Downwind launch for Peter Lynn Arcs will be pretty hot in rideable winds. I don't recommend it.

Well, I'd say that it depends model, venom 1+2 are easy and safe to launch downwind, synergy is not.

I launched my venom-2 10m2 downwind every time when I was in mui nea, and wind was about 15m/s. 2 days ago I launched my venom-1 13m2 downwind and wind was about 12m/s.

I launch my synergy-19 allways downwind, but winds are less than 8m/s and I get pulled about 5m when it blows that 8m/s. I don't recommend downwind launches for smaller synergy.

And quite often I launch my kites from water, but thats because we don't have beaches here, trees grown 5 meter from water and I just walk 50 meter to water, open kite, inflate kite, let kite drift walking backwards until lines are straight and launch kite.

Ismo

ARCs since 2003, guerilla-1 10+13+15+18, Venom-1 8+13+19, Venom-2 10+16, Synergy-19


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 Post subject: Re: Near fatal accident at sandbanks, poole
PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 6:51 am 
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stanroc wrote:
How much space is there downwind at the sandpoole site?

This depends of the tide but this is very smal.
May be once you have lie down the foil for a downwind hot launch you have less that 10 meters after you have the roads and buildings.


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 Post subject: Re: Near fatal accident at sandbanks, poole
PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 7:40 am 
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Location: Malibu
Ismo wrote:
FredBGG wrote:
Foils can be launched straight downwind when the wind is low enough, but not all foils.
Peter Lynn Arc Kites absolutley cannot be launched uninflated stright downwind.
Downwind launch for Peter Lynn Arcs will be pretty hot in rideable winds. I don't recommend it.

Well, I'd say that it depends model, venom 1+2 are easy and safe to launch downwind, synergy is not.

I launched my venom-2 10m2 downwind every time when I was in mui nea, and wind was about 15m/s. 2 days ago I launched my venom-1 13m2 downwind and wind was about 12m/s.

I launch my synergy-19 allways downwind, but winds are less than 8m/s and I get pulled about 5m when it blows that 8m/s. I don't recommend downwind launches for smaller synergy.

And quite often I launch my kites from water, but thats because we don't have beaches here, trees grown 5 meter from water and I just walk 50 meter to water, open kite, inflate kite, let kite drift walking backwards until lines are straight and launch kite.

Ismo

ARCs since 2003, guerilla-1 10+13+15+18, Venom-1 8+13+19, Venom-2 10+16, Synergy-19


Do you launch your Venoms uninflated?
I always forund that good inflation was neccessary for a smooth launch.
At many locations getting pulled 5m (15ft) can be a problem.


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 Post subject: Re: Near fatal accident at sandbanks, poole
PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 10:29 am 
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Posts: 83
Pump me up wrote:
The accident was terrible. Condolences to the kiter involved and his family. A number of my posts have been critical of the aerodynamic and safety inferiority of ram air (foil) kites. Without wanting to use this man's terrible misfortune to score cheap political points, it is important to note that this man's accident was DIRECTLY attributable to the type of kite he was using - ie ram air. The requirement or temptation to do downwind launches with many ram air kites, eg Flysurfer, makes them inherently dangerous and less safe compared to inflatables. There are countless episodes where ram air riders have got into trouble because of launches in the middle of the window. Ram airs are less safe compared to inflatables and this tragic accident, once again, demonstrates this.



Just had to jump in and join the others in telling you what a disgusting scumbag you are, PMU.

Hijacking a thread about an accident to post your same ol' crap once again shows you've got no respect whatsoever for anybody.

Get outta here, STRONZO :evil:

Back on topic. All the best to the injured guy, hope he gets well soon.
And one equation (valid regardless the kite being used):
launching downwind in 30knts = Superman


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