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 Post subject: Re: Goods kites for 7-8 knots??
PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 8:55 pm 
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Location: PASA Level III Instructor FL- OBX - MI - the world
ronnie wrote:
Its a good question to ask, because at the moment, the boards are capable of handling down to 6 knots, but the kites are the limiting factor -


I think that's right...but no matter how efficient the kite a minimum wind velocity is needed. How much lower the viable wind speed will go? Probably not much lower. The race boards work well because they can efficiently help generate apparent wind (both upwind and off the wind) with efficient foils (skegs) and a good planing surface, but other limiting factors will enter the game.

A good comparison to look at would be the latest Americas Cup boats - amazing hull technolgy and aerodynamics at work, flying hulls upwind and downwind in 7-10 kts, boatspeeds hitting 25kts!! Pretty amazing stuff, but mechanically quite different. But the downside to this is that
1. They are afraid to sail the boats in over 15 kts of breeze
2. They cannot handle waves over 2m
3. The boats are super expensive
etc.
so it's always a tradeoff...hard to "have it all" in one boat/board
but great to see people still pushing it and getting better and better performance.

Don't get me wrong - I enjoy kiting in light wind, but at some point it is just a challenge to stay upwind and be powered enough to have a little fun w/ waves or freestyle.

As soon as you go downwind on a wave in 7kts wind you may lose all your apparent wind and have negative wind, and unless your board can constantly generate the minimum apparent wind it just becomes a struggle IMHO.


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 Post subject: Re: Goods kites for 7-8 knots??
PostPosted: Sun Mar 14, 2010 4:31 pm 
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Something like this


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 Post subject: Re: Goods kites for 7-8 knots??
PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 5:51 am 
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speed 3 19m and a 6-7 foot fish surfboard

dan

under that go powered paragliding on a u-turn and K2 setup from U-turn USA


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 Post subject: Re: Goods kites for 7-8 knots??
PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 2:34 pm 
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I use an Advance Kaiman2 15 with Advance Raceboard 2009, start doing a good job from 7-8 knots :thumb:

Image

Image


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 Post subject: Re: Goods kites for 7-8 knots??
PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 2:53 pm 
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Location: The Netherlands
Flysurfer or 14m2 Zeeko with E.R.A system is the only way to go :thumb:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQ1Fe6cVoig


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 Post subject: Re: Goods kites for 7-8 knots??
PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 8:05 pm 
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Silver_surfer wrote:
I use an Advance Kaiman2 15 with Advance Raceboard 2009, start doing a good job from 7-8 knots :thumb:



Just curious what your fin set up looks like and if the board is any good in 2 or 2 ft choppy water.
Looks like you have to switch your feet when you turn, just like on a windsurfer.

I don't see those boards around here so I'm kinda curious, I kite in light winds a lot.


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 Post subject: Re: Goods kites for 7-8 knots??
PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 8:18 pm 
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As mentioned in another thread, the kite is only 1 factor in light wind - there are many more.

But for "extreme" light wind, Flysurfer SPEEDs predominate - they're easier to keep in the air, and are designed for very high efficiency. I'm not saying LEI's can't fly in that wind, or that a lightweight rider can't get going on one, but the Flysurfers usually are going lower and not working as hard.


Those race boards look interesting, floaty & flat seems like the best of both worlds for light wind.


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 Post subject: Re: Goods kites for 7-8 knots??
PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 10:50 pm 
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To answer your questions about light air riding...

A modern 4 fin race board will absolutely be blasting around in 6 to 7 knots. You need at least 4 10 inch fins though. As for the kites anything over 15 meter inflatable will work but you need 35 to 40 meter line set. For racing the limit on the line set length is 45 meters including the kite in the overall measurement so usually a 40 meter set of lines works just fine.

For sure the foils are working better in light wind, but only upwind and they get smoked when you use them going downwind as they turn really slow compared to the modern inflatable kites.

For the record a race board will smoke a surfboard in these conditions...because of the flat rocker and powerful fins, but the surfboard will turn much better.

I am working on some de-tuned freeride race board designs for having fun in these conditions. they will have smaller fins and almost be as fast as a race board but they will be fun to jump and ride in surf.


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 Post subject: Re: Goods kites for 7-8 knots??
PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 3:57 am 
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I use a 12m C kite in winds starting at 5 knots anything over 10 knots I get a little scared and start using my 9m. Riding in 5-10 knots is sick, it's really help me practice my skills. If you want to train to race michael phelps, then drop some loot on the biggest kite you can find and go ride those light winds.


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 Post subject: Re: Goods kites for 7-8 knots??
PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 11:31 am 
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Location: Italy
Quote:
Just curious what your fin set up looks like and if the board is any good in 2 or 2 ft choppy water.
Looks like you have to switch your feet when you turn, just like on a windsurfer.

I don't see those boards around here so I'm kinda curious, I kite in light winds a lot.


The Advance raceboard 2009 has 2x25 asimmetrical fins, the handling in choppy conditions in very good, no problem even in downwind high speed, this is the best board I have found to go upwind and in moderate downwind degees (lasco-traverso) but not very good in straight downwind (i don't know the english word, in italian we call it "poppa") as the board is too narrow.
The new version 2010 will be larger and quadrifin, I've tried some proto's this winter and for sure it will be better when going straight downwind and better upwind but probably will loose some speed at traverso (90°), but a long work trimming fins-set will be done as the new board will arrive (beginning of april) in order to get the best compromise between speed and upwind.

Of course you have to jibe and switch feet when you change direction, all the raceboard are made this way, no way to seriously race with twintip boards even with big twintips like Flydoors.

About the kite (Foil vs. pump) I can say that I often train with a friend that has a Flysurfer speed3 19, his kite has the advantage to stay in the sky easily with 6 knots instead of mine that requires 7 knots but over this limit (7-8 knots) my Kaiman 15 makes better angle upwind.
As in Italy the races never starts under 8-9 knots I prefer a LEI kite, but if your goal is to lower the lowend as much as possible take seriously in consideration a Speed 19.


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