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 Post subject: Re: After Worlds experience can Kiteboarding ever become Oly
PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 2:15 pm 
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You get remarkably few chances to make a good first impression, let's hope that they can get it together for the next event.

Surely it's not beyond the imagination of those with such great 'vision' to foresee these simple eventualities.


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 Post subject: Re: After Worlds experience can Kiteboarding ever become Oly
PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 3:16 pm 
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Last year, the final event of the French Championship was in Sète, in a region known for its strong off-shore tramontana and mistral. The organizers had enough rescue boats not only to secure the normal triangular races but also to launch a several kms long long-distance run parallel to the shore, with a "security curtain" of a rescue boat at every couple of hundred meters. It was really great to race on such a flat surface...


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 Post subject: Re: After Worlds experience can Kiteboarding ever become Oly
PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 8:23 pm 
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are offshore winds normal for that region?

I experienced during this time of the year only onshore winds.

Racing is pretty new...so give some time to correct errors and make it more professional...we have time until 2016 ;-)


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 Post subject: Re: After Worlds experience can Kiteboarding ever become Oly
PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 4:09 pm 
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Toby,

I agree it is just the beginning of racing getting serious in the last few years. We are constantly learning how to run better events (better rules, better equipment and better regatta support). We are lucky that Nils was able to pull off the event when US Sailing bailed on insuring the event; and this after IKA and Kitesurfing became a sanctioned ISAF Class.

Still in the growing pains part of the sport.

Gebi


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 Post subject: Re: After Worlds experience can Kiteboarding ever become Oly
PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 4:31 pm 
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If you have little or no experience and are still developing rules, developing equipment, developing an understanding of the limits of the sport, developing the very nature of the competition, how in the hell does that make you anywhere near ready, to even think to apply for Olympic inclusion?

Dear IOC,

we mess around with kites and boards, in the water. We don't actually have what you might call an event yet, or even a sport, but if you give us the green light, we'll try to get something organized in time.

Yours Faithfully
Monkey Brain
IKA

ps. please can you send us some money?



There is another major problem with entering the Olympics. It is not been done as the result of a fact based analysis or in depth study. Instead, it is being done on the basis of a huge presumption. If not several presumptions. There isn't a fact in sight. The main presumption is this:

Being associated with the Olympics is a good thing.

And that is the entire argument! There is not one fact, study, statistic or even coloured in bar graph to support this. But on the basis of this presumption, the IKA are hanging the entire future of the sport. Very professional! I have to ask the question, what, about being in the Olympics is going to be so great for kitesurfing? The only reply I usually get is, we'll get loads of money! Which again is another presumption. Archery is in the Olympics and has been since the inception of the modern games, trust me, Archery isn't awash with cash. There is no evidence to support this presumption. Just like the one presumption which states that, 'If we can get some kind of kitesurfing on the world stage, kitesurfing will grow'. Really? Will it? How? Why? I've been seeing a lot of people in Red Shirts on the world stage lately, I and no one that I know is remotely stimulated to put on a red shirt and go and occupy a government building.

The arguments for Olympic participation are so weak, so ill-conceived, so lacking in any factual or statistical information that they are a joke. If you stood up in front of the Harvard debating society and proffered the argument,

Things that are heavier are better built
Why?
Because they just are, everybody knows that, it's obvious, stooopid!

You would be laughed off the platform. I fail to see how the same argument being made for kitesurfing in the Olympics, isn't being viewed as a similarly, intellectually weak joke.

Here is another common presumption/misconception about the Olympics. Hosting the Olympics is good for the host city and stimulates tourism.

The argument goes, people see the city on the TV during the Olympics. For three weeks, your city gets worldwide, 24hr marketing and promotion. People see, people like, people come. Right? Wrong! Every host city since and including Seoul has seen a significant reduction in it's visiting tourists. But! But! But! Monkey see, monkey do? Well it turns out that life, people and economics are all a little more complex than the monkeys in the IKA's heads. The reasons for these downturns are myriad and I wont go into them now, but suffice to say that somehow, three weeks of positive marketing to the entire planet has a negative effect on tourism! It makes no sense, it flies in the face of conventional wisdom. Or at least it does, if your wisdom is equal to that of a three year old child.

Monkey see, monkey do. Monkey do, monkey get money. Monkey with money good. Is just way too simple a way to look at the world and yet this seems to be the only IKA argument for going to the Olympics.

We aren't ready, we don't have an event and there is no evidence that it will be good for our sport. Apart from that, bring it on!


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 Post subject: Re: After Worlds experience can Kiteboarding ever become Oly
PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 5:07 pm 
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MKM wrote:
PD,

I am not a fan of "one design" in kite racing however. I simply like the idea of a box rule and limiting the kind of kites that may be able to compete in the future. Ie. no board longer than 6 ft., no kite larger than 18 meters, fins larger than 15 inches, etc. I'm sure that the numbers will start to normalize as we go along.


K M


One design is the universal standard for all sailing classes in the Olympics.

The Olympics are a test of athlete against athlete, not manufacturer or designer against their counterparts.

One design, is the logical, obvious and standard sailing formula.


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 Post subject: Re: After Worlds experience can Kiteboarding ever become Oly
PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 5:34 pm 
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Me3 wrote:
MKM wrote:
PD,

I am not a fan of "one design" in kite racing however. I simply like the idea of a box rule and limiting the kind of kites that may be able to compete in the future. Ie. no board longer than 6 ft., no kite larger than 18 meters, fins larger than 15 inches, etc. I'm sure that the numbers will start to normalize as we go along.


K M


One design is the universal standard for all sailing classes in the Olympics.

The Olympics are a test of athlete against athlete, not manufacturer or designer against their counterparts.

One design, is the logical, obvious and standard sailing formula.


This is utter bull shit when it comes to kitesurfing.
The size and weight of the rider influences the overall preformance way to much.
Also limiting the equipment would stiffle development.
Already most the so called "industry" has become a bunch of clone companies basicly making the same stuff. The biggest difference is who can make the ugliest graphics.

Limiting board and kite size is stupid.

You can't compare kitesurfing to sailing. For most sailboats the atheletes weight will not make a significant difference.


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 Post subject: Re: After Worlds experience can Kiteboarding ever become Oly
PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 11:54 pm 
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Fred, wether you think it is bullshit or not, olympic kiteboarding (if it happens) will be one design, every sailing class is and we will be no different. as a result every single sailing class has optimum weight sailors and crew.

every class was put out to tender for manufacture and supply and the same will happen with us too, that is where the money will be and that is why there are some very excitable companies that want that cash, after all if every participant or olympic hopefull has to buy the gear from one company and has to do so over a fixed periodit is the best money earner in the sport at the moment,

win the selection event put it in production and everyone buys it unchanged for the next however many years no R and D no tweaking and development no graphic change and the rest of it, just watch the money come in.


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 Post subject: Re: After Worlds experience can Kiteboarding ever become Oly
PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 2:16 am 
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FredBGG wrote:

This is utter bull shit when it comes to kitesurfing.
The size and weight of the rider influences the overall preformance way to much.
Also limiting the equipment would stiffle development.
Already most the so called "industry" has become a bunch of clone companies basicly making the same stuff. The biggest difference is who can make the ugliest graphics.

Limiting board and kite size is stupid.

You can't compare kitesurfing to sailing. For most sailboats the atheletes weight will not make a significant difference.


Too late for that. Kitesurfing is now a sailing class. I was cracking up when looking at the results where the kite-sailor had to state which Yacht Club he belongs to. Time to get your slip in the harbour. :jump:


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 Post subject: Re: After Worlds experience can Kiteboarding ever become Oly
PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 4:14 am 
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FredBGG wrote:
This is utter bull shit when it comes to kitesurfing.
The size and weight of the rider influences the overall preformance way to much.
Also limiting the equipment would stiffle development.
Already most the so called "industry" has become a bunch of clone companies basicly making the same stuff. The biggest difference is who can make the ugliest graphics.

Limiting board and kite size is stupid.

You can't compare kitesurfing to sailing. For most sailboats the atheletes weight will not make a significant difference.


Sorry Fred but you are utterly, totally and completely wrong on all counts.

1. Kitesurfing is not special, at least not to the point where the rules of physics behave differently with kiters than with windsurfers. Olympic windsurfing, everyone rides the exact same board and rig. Kiters will have to do the same.
2. A one design Olympic class does not exclude the existence of other, non Olympic competitions. You race one design in the Olympics and you race open class on the pro world tour. Go take a look at the windsurfers, that's exactly what they do. They race Olympic class for the countries to qualify for the games and then jump on their, sponsors gear to race professionally. Open class keeps the development going Olympic class, levels the playing field.
3. F-One's Bandits are nothing like Slingshot's Fuels which are nothing like Naish's Sigma kites.
4. Limiting board size is already a fact in kitesurfing and there is no reason why kites shouldn't follow.
5. If you really think that a Laser skipper that weighs 90kg isn't at a disadvantage to one who ways 75kg then you obviously have never sailed a Laser. Weight affects sailboats, just as it does windsurfers and kitesurfers.
6. I'm afraid that since the IKA came along you are quite right, you can't compare kitesurfing to sailing because now kitesurfing is sailing. We are one and the same. It's like comparing lemons with lemons, foolish and pointless.

Time for my G and Tee and a chat with the vice commodore. Toddle pip!

Now where did I put those lemons?


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