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 Post subject: Epic Screamer Full Review, Videos, Pics, & Discussion
PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 12:07 am 
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I actually got to spend a little bit of time on the screamer. But not enough to really do a full review on it yet. Hopefully tomorrow or this weekend there will be wind and I will have a video/review up by the end of next week. The Screamer is NUTS! Another rider and I demoed the Screamer and walked up to each other with huge smiles. We were absolutely blown away and couldn’t stop smiling. I definitely want to upgrade my quiver to Screamers.

By next week I should have a complete review with video from the helmet cam just like my review on the Renegade. I will attach it better and try and film the kite more. I also will go over the bar with the helmet cam on so you guys can see the system better.


Last edited by grantman54 on Sun May 02, 2010 7:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Epic Screamer Review.... (in progress)
PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 5:59 pm 
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Marc
Naish - Cult '10 13.5m / GK - Trix: '08 12m & 9m / Eclipse -Thruster: '08 14m - Nano: '09 11m & 7m / '08 6m & 4m
Kiteboarding Videos: Feat. Nobile, Mystic, GK, Litewave, Flyboards, Ozone, Naish, Cabrinha, & More


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 Post subject: Re: Epic Screamer Full Review, Videos, Pics, & Discussion
PostPosted: Sun May 02, 2010 9:58 pm 
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The Epic Screamer!
As promised here is my complete review. I put a lot of time into it so please comment/ask questions. Thanks guys


Kiter Background:
I have been demoing a ton of kites recently and checked out the different companies at the recent Pismo Expo. I have flown, Liquid Force Sessions, Liquid Force Havocs (2010), Liquid Force Envy, Best Kahoona 2010, Best Nemesis NXG, Best Waroo, Caution Zombie 2010, GK Sonic 2010, Nobile 555 2010, Liquid Force Menace, Naish Cult, Epic Screamer, and the Epic Renegade. Through testing all of these I have found what I definitely don't like and the characteristics that make a great kite. I have been eager to test the Epic kites after hearing all the talk and checking out their quality at the expo.

I demoed the Screamer for only 20 mins. I was not planning on purchasing new kites this season but after trying the Screamer I put my old kites up for sale and purchased a 9 and 12 meter. I am waiting for one of my old kites to sell to order a third 7m. I like doing reviews of kites I own because I can do a thorough review and hopefully help out some prospective Screamerites, and help out my fellow Screameroians.

Out of the Bag:
I ordered one 9m complete and a 12m kite only. Each kite came in the bag with their own individual pumps. My 9m of course came with a bar. They each came with a little repair kit for the do it yourself repairs. There wasn’t any sort of pamphlet or manual. I like to see that sort of thing; it makes the product seem more “new” and has some value. Very small complaint and I am sure most of you could care less about that thing.

Features:
    • Kite: Well I thoroughly examined Epic's quality at the recent expo (http://www.kiteforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2363440&hilit=pismo), and they are top notch. There are only a few companies out there putting forth the effort to produce durable products and Epic is one of them.
    • Bag: This is the best bag I have come across. It has a huge zipper hole fore easy access, ingenious bungies on the side for your pump, and a built in bar pouch that is super nice. Only problem with the bag is that it can’t compress down a whole lot. So if you are going to travel, you will have to use the included buckle/strap to tighten it up.
    • Bar: Well if you like above the bar depower and a clean system, this is a perfect bar for you. It doesn't get better than this. The below the bar swivel works well. It isn't a necessity but nice to have and very few companies have some sort of swivel. Most swivels don't work, but Epic's below the bar swivel is always there working when you want to use it. The bar's construction is refined and appears very durable. I liked the entire bar's features: the beefy pretty floats, the bar foam, the durable O'shit handles, the bar ends, the simple QR, the ease of use on the depower system, and the "adjustable" bar width for your smaller kites. My only complaint would be the red plastic piece of the SDR QR. It is plasticy. I would like to see it in the future, made out of a different more refined plastic softer to the touch. However, this QR works fabulously! For the first time ever I used a QR in a panic situation. I was self landing using a technique I could on my old kites. And managed to loop the kite twice on the beach. Reached for the QR and before I new it the kite was depowered chilling on the side of the window. The stopper ball! I liked this thing. Too many stoppers I have been using arent that easy to use and dont seem to work that great. The Epic stopper is my favorite by far. However, I doubt you will use it much on the Screamer. The bar throw is the right amount already. The O’shits are great to have on both sides too. You can reverse launch really easily with them.
    • Pump: Good aluminum shaft. Has a spot for your name/number and pretty graphics on it. However it is a smaller pump easy for traveling. So it will take a couple extra pumps to get the kite tight.

    Flight Specs:
      My weight: 175lbs
      Board: 133 Liquid Force Recoil/145 Liquid Force WLF
      Beach Conditions: Typical California coast with onshore winds and waves.


The Bar in Flight:
Well this bar looks great and dandy on the beach, but what about when you take in the water? This bar rocks! The depower and swivel are easy to use on the go. The bar pressure was in the medium range. The input was direct and immediate. The amount of throw on the bar is more like a C kite. It does depower the kite but not completely and it takes a second for the kite to slow down. I would say it cuts the power by half. But with this kite, you still have power after the depower. You can pretty much ride sheeted out or in. Just sheet in when you want some boost or speed. My arm position was natural and right where it should be. The Center lines were nice and thin and the bar slid over them really easily. Everything about this bar makes sense and is easy use. I LOVE the input on this bar. The kite never delays and immediately goes exactly where I wanted it to be. It is awesome not having to wait on my kite.

Kite Performance:
Tested over 4 days time. 12m one day; 9m 3 days.
Wind Conditions: 10-30mph over the four days

HOLY COW! This kite is sweet. But it definitely is performance kite. It has many great characteristics and very few flaws. It took me some time to get used to a kite with this much power, hangtime, and speed. But once I dialed it in, I am in LOVE! I had the biggest smile on my face yesterday after my 3rd six hour session in a row on the Screamer.
---The Screamer in Light wind: I was the first one out on my 12m Screamer. I got going on my 12m in 10mph with surf! But it was my first time on it and I wasn’t very used to it. So it was hard to ride upwind. Once this kite gets going, it will keep going. It never peters out like past kites I have flown. Most people chilled on the beach and the few kiters attempting on the water didn’t get far. The 12m Screamer is already known as the “powerhouse”. I talked with some locals and they said, “if you can’t get going on that thing (Screamer), we aren’t pumping up”
---The Screamer’s power: Hands down most powerful kite I have ever flown. It takes some getting used to. But it is sweet once you dial it in. It SCREAMS upwind. I did a 3 mile “upwinder” past our local Pismo pier. I got upwind with only 3 tacks! Normally it would take me 15+ to get up that far. Because the kite has so much power you can really get a strong edge and haul upwind. The power of this kite has allowed me to go upwind of the crowds and have a mile stretch of beach to myself, leaving 40+ kiters downwind. This kite’s power changed my kiting life! At our beach, you constantly have to fight waves and currents when you go upwind. This kite eats them up.
---The Screamer Boosting: This is what this kite is designed for. It took me a whole day to relearn my tricks. Once I got it down though, I was having the time of my life. It pulls you up and up. It takes you over waves so easily and I am talking triple overhead waves. I got the biggest airs I have ever had on these kites. And a couple of times I wasn’t even trying. When Dimitri says huge airs, he isn’t kidding.
---The Screamer Turning Performance: This is the exact kind of turning I like. I don’t like kites that pivot from the middle. This kite pivots from about 1/3 up from the wingtip. Really smooth and good power through the turns. Before I got my Screamers I rarely downlooped. Now just about every time I downloop. It is so consistent and fun to turn this kite. Seriously, I love just working the kite, bringing it high, then low. It is a kick to ride.
---The Screamer’s Downside: So with all this performance there must be some sacrifice. I have tried many other performance kites and all are typically good at only one thing. The screamer excels in all the areas you would want out of a performance kite. However because of its high lift, it does not like the top of the wind window in gusts. In fact it doesn’t really like gusts. It doesn’t eat them up like other kites. Also, this kite might have too much power for some riders. It has a load of speed and power that might be overwhelming for some riders.

Who is this kite for?
This kite is not for everyone:
• The discerning rider looking for a quality company.
• The bored kiter that has tried everything looking for the next thrill.
• The C Kiter wanting an SLE that doesn’t want big bridals and a slow kite. This kite has the direct input of a C Kite and a minimal bridal.
• The booster. Our big air king (Kinsley) has been jumping HUGE on this kite landing xtreme big airs!
• The progessive rider. This kite is thrilling and exciting.
• The racer. This kite pulls like a Mac truck and has a ridiculous amount of speed.
• The kite enthusiast. If you want the best performing kite on the water, this is it.
• ME! I am not the greatest rider, but since I got the Screamers I have been landing the biggest airs, tons of new tricks, downloops every tack, and hauling upwind.

Who this kite IS NOT kite for?
This kite is not for everyone:
• The beginner. This kite has too much power for you and too much hangtime. Sorry! :)
• The mellow cruiser. This kite is a bit much for you. It has too much speed and doesn’t eat gusts like your typical cruiser kite.
The Renegade is perfect for both of you.



At a Glance Report Card
Inflation system: Excellent and quality built
Control Bar: All around best simple system out there.
Control Bar Materials: This bar will last a long long time.
Safety System: Push up standard release with center flag line. Perfect!
Bridle: Small and clean. Well built with beefy bridle pads and only one small pully!
Stability: Not the greatest through gusts. Perfectly stable anywhere but 12.
Power: Extreme power! Hauls upwind.
Turning: Absolutely my favorite turning characteristics
Pop: Can it get better than this? If it does, I might being showing up on the FAA’s radar.
Bar Pressure: Ideal for me. More in the medium range.
Depower: This kite depowers more like a modern C. Not too much where it kills the kite.
Relaunch: Launches easily and can relaunch with a variety of methods such as reverse launch.
Durability: Build quality is top notch.
Kite Bag: Well thought out bag. Makes complete sense.

Tips & Tricks:
• Play around with the different knots to find the right feel for you. I found shortening the center lines by one knot is best for me.
• The swivel works great but remember to untwist the single red flag line after the session. You can do it while riding by just rotating the loop. I can’t foresee a problem coming from this twist besides maybe some extra wear.
• Spot your landings because you are going to go bigger than you plan! :) :)
• Remember, you are on an Epic kite. So go big!


Epic came out strong! Most kites need refinement after the first production but this kite is better than the generation 2/3 kites I have flown from other companies. Epic did it right and released a competitive quality product from the get go.

Please don't refrain from posting your questions and comments.


Here are some videos I took to give you a look at the product and performance

Equipment Review:

Kite Review:

Kite Action:

My buddy Kinsley from Xtremebigair Review/Action:


The Epic Screamer!


Attachments:
IMG_0360.JPG
IMG_0360.JPG [ 2.15 MIB | Viewed 2646 times ]
IMG_0370.JPG
IMG_0370.JPG [ 1.55 MIB | Viewed 2646 times ]
GOPR0005.JPG
GOPR0005.JPG [ 1.83 MIB | Viewed 2646 times ]
GOPR0006.JPG
GOPR0006.JPG [ 1.76 MIB | Viewed 2646 times ]
GOPR0009.JPG
GOPR0009.JPG [ 1.84 MIB | Viewed 2646 times ]


Last edited by grantman54 on Mon May 03, 2010 12:46 am, edited 2 times in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Epic Screamer Full Review, Videos, Pics, & Discussion
PostPosted: Sun May 02, 2010 10:35 pm 
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wow crazy long and indepth review.

though completely contradicting you, i think the bar is so fucking shitty.

the chickenloop is small, the below the bar swivel is a pain in the ass, especially because you can reach a normal swivel above the depower cleat. the adjustable length is ok.

the bar does not have enough throw. it's an SLE it should be able to depower to maximum by just letting go of the bar, which is what all the other companies do.

the quick release is garbage too. plastic and shit feels like it's going to break. i had it release on accident (cause my hand brushed it) twice while testing (on two different bars). also the mini fifth line, or what ever the lease connects too doesn't even depower the kites. i messed up a unhooked kiteloop on the snow and let go of the bar and even "on the safety line fully depowered" the kite was pulling like a truck.

if i were ever to buy kites from this company i wouldn't use the stock bar.

now thats a lot of hate ha but i did like a few things about the kite - it is definately a jumper. just wants to take you up. having said that it also drops you right quick so you have to be on the ball steering that thing (esp in smaller sizes). i also liked the direct back line connection, really lets you feel the kite.

now if you like c-kites, don't buy this kite. you will hate (i mean not like it as much as your c-kites) it. better just upgrade to 2010 c-kite stuff (which is soooo sick) or stick on your gear. the kite has some direct feel, but it still pivot turns and looses power in turns. it also doesn't come up well enough in loops for my liking.

ps - gayest name ever. "epic" kites, really? come on. at least Best had an excuse for it....


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 Post subject: Re: Epic Screamer Full Review, Videos, Pics, & Discussion
PostPosted: Sun May 02, 2010 10:49 pm 
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^^^^^ oh the infamous pdkite. :rollgrin: :rollgrin: Glad to get a response; just your replies are always hateful and aggressive. :D Im glad we are all able to share our opinions. I just wish you would chose your words better so my review doesn't get smothered in profanity.

Quote:
the bar does not have enough throw. it's an SLE it should be able to depower to maximum by just letting go of the bar, which is what all the other companies do.

I had this problem too, but then I trimmed up the kite and now it depowers good. Not as much as say a Liquid Force bar or Naish bar, but thats not what this kite is for.

Quote:
the quick release is garbage too. plastic and shit feels like it's going to break. i had it release on accident (cause my hand brushed it) twice while testing (on two different bars). also the mini fifth line, or what ever the lease connects too doesn't even depower the kites. i messed up a unhooked kiteloop on the snow and let go of the bar and even "on the safety line fully depowered" the kite was pulling like a truck.

Again, it sounds like the kite might not of been trimmed right for you. The kites are super easy to trim and change the feel of the kite quite a bit. The release is plasticy but so far I haven't heard of any of them breaking. (Blade makes the bar and they haven't had a problem either). I am on the other end of this argument. I had the releases that are mostly metal. Unnecessary, if the plastic release like this one works fine. The engineering on this release is super simple and makes sense to me as an aerospace engineering student.


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 Post subject: Re: Epic Screamer Full Review, Videos, Pics, & Discussion
PostPosted: Mon May 03, 2010 12:18 am 
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pdkite. You got me thinking these last two hours... maybe my new kites/bar aren't that good? And then I remembered how awesome my last four sessions have been. I realized you are entitled to your opinion and this kite apparently isn't right for you. But I LOVE it and so do a ton of other people! In the last four sessions I landed so many new tricks and big airs that I have never even done before. It truly brought kiting to a new level for me.

I believe at this point that your kite was not tuned properly. So with that said. Let's start a discussion on tuning for all you fellow Screamer users.
What knots are you using? Have you changed anything; for the better/worse? Anyone using the "slow" attachment point?


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 Post subject: Re: Epic Screamer Full Review, Videos, Pics, & Discussion
PostPosted: Mon May 03, 2010 1:08 am 
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ha i was waiting for the "epic" mob and/or dimitri to rip me apart after giving a negative review, didn't thing it would be you

"OMG these kites rock how can they not be good. blah blah blah it was definately user error, these kites can never be wrong blah" - devout epic kites groupie (former eclipse groupie)




if you like the kite go for it. kiting is about having fun, even if you're on gear that doesn't work for me.

its not a horrible setup it is just really horrible for me.



oh ya it was tuned right as well. SLE kites just dont loop well unhooked.

PS - Still the gayest kite company name ever


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 Post subject: Re: Epic Screamer Full Review, Videos, Pics, & Discussion
PostPosted: Mon May 03, 2010 1:28 am 
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Wow thats a nice review. really nice. As Epic associate i like it a lot ^^.

At pdkite, its your opinion but i dont share it at all. Seems your a c kite fan so that surely will make you have a different opinion then me.


Personally i love the kites, riding the 12m most of the time. The thing pd says about the kite dropping you as a brick when you dont steer it... either you havent ridden it or it was totally rigged wrong. The kite always brought me back slowly when i didnt steer it back. sure that works a lot better but even without steering the kite the float was great.

The full depower stuff, yeah i understand what your comming from, letting the bar go the kite stays up for a while and then slowly decends. The knot you use on the powerlines makes a lot of difference there. On the middle knot or the longest knot it definitly doesnt have full depower. On the knot closest to the kite has almost no power anymore, but it stays up a while. Which i personally like. Gives me time to have my hands free for other things like adjusting my footstraps when somebody took my board again :angryfire:

The plastics on the CL... i always hated it on other bars like north, specially because it looked so fragile and was thin. I'm still not a big fan or something BUT, on the epic bar it feels solid enough. Not really worried there that it will break after a while. When i was testing it with my hands in my backyard i thought it didnt work that well, so on my first session i tested it over and over. And it worked perfectly.

The Chickendicks could be a bit longer as a point for next models.
The Swivel, well it works but sure doesnt work easy for me. That could be a lot smoother. But its still better then swivels way up there that dont work at all.
Depower/power straps are perfect, i dont like clamcleats, had em on a few kites and it produced more dangerous situations and simply didnt work for me, btw all above the bar clamcleats.Straps feel alot more precise to me and you cant really go wrong with them.

If you love C kites, sure you best keep buying c kites. They are different, but i would still give these kites a try just to check because these puppies can suprise you.
If your into wakestyle more then try the renegades they maybe marketet as allround friendly kites but they are pretty sweet.

In the end every kite on the market nowadays is good. They all fly good. But every kite has its own style and image. And what you will like the most is more depending on that. Len11jes (ruben len10 fwannabees) will always love the Fuel the most and never consider anything else.
If you love high jumps and hangtime you will love a epic screamer. If you love wave and wakestyle or just simply want a nice allround kite the renegade will be perfect.

In the end your style of riding makes you like a kite or not.


Nice vids you made grantman and that kinsley... wtf... learn me to ride like that!!!


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 Post subject: Re: Epic Screamer Full Review, Videos, Pics, & Discussion
PostPosted: Mon May 03, 2010 1:45 am 
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Quote:
Nice vids you made grantman and that kinsley... wtf... learn me to ride like that!!!


hahaha I know right! He has ten years of kiting on me so I am playing huge catch up. I feel so little when I pull stuff around him cuz he always goes so big.

Quote:
The knot you use on the powerlines makes a lot of difference there. On the middle knot or the longest knot it definitly doesnt have full depower. On the knot closest to the kite has almost no power anymore, but it stays up a while.


by powerlines do you mean the center lines or outside lines? Sounds like we are running a similar setup just in a different configuration.
I tuned my 9m like this. Moved the outside line knots on the kite down about 1 inch away from the the end of the line. Then I shorten the center lines by one knot if its windy. Perfect feeling for me in winds 20+ on a 9m.


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 Post subject: Re: Epic Screamer Full Review, Videos, Pics, & Discussion
PostPosted: Mon May 03, 2010 4:15 am 
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Hello "pdkite",
From reading your post it comes clearly to me that you are very jealous about the way the SCREAMER flies and you wish you never tried it. But it is ok I understand, no body is perfect.
Sorry you don't like the name EPIC. Any way, I hope you have an EPIC session this week :thumb:

http://www.epickites.com/media/videos.p ... Ev8F-Y8dKQ


Last edited by Dimitri M on Mon May 03, 2010 11:35 am, edited 7 times in total.

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