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 Post subject: cabrinha ids self landing problems
PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 10:29 pm 
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Location: New Buffalo Michigan U.S.A
I have watched all the cabrinha tech videos on self landing with the ids system but still having trouble controlling the kite when it is on its back after activating the ids line. I have a 2010 crossbow 13 meter kite. When the kite is on the beach on its back after ids activation it elevates off of the ground as you are walking up the centerline. It will sometimes get 10-15 feet off of the ground. The only way to keep it on its back and on the ground is to run towards the kite holding the centerlines. If its windy you cant run fast enough to get the kite to come down. If you stop running towards the kite allowing tension in the centerlines the kite climbs higher in the sky.

I dont understand the mechanism that is suppose to allow the kite to stay on its back on the ground as you walk up to it for recovery? These kites will not lay still on there back in wind unattended after you inflate them . Try letting go of a bow kite on its back,on the ground ,in wind . It wants to rise up into the air,its still wanting to lift off of the ground.

The only thing i can think of doing to remedy my problem is to pull on only one centerline as i walk myself up to the kite so it will hopefull flag out in the air and come to the ground. Anyone else experiencing these problems with the cabrinha ids landing system? I feel like a retard having these problems.


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 Post subject: Re: cabrinha ids self landing problems
PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 10:49 pm 
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Location: Canada
Let it hang in the air; I do. Just walk up the lines and it'll come back down as you get closer to it. The kite is not going to take off in this position.


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 Post subject: Re: cabrinha ids self landing problems
PostPosted: Sun Jul 25, 2010 2:07 am 
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Location: New Buffalo Michigan U.S.A
Yes, i could leave it flying in the air 10-20 feet and reel it. Pulling on the front centerlines to get it down causes alot of wear on the hands as the kite bucks and surges as the tension in the lines is higher than i would expect for a kite that is flying upside down. It just cant be the way this system was designed to work. Having your kite relaunch itself after landing and flying upside down 20 feet in the air is unerving. I wish cabrinha would go back to the old single centerline flagging system for self landing these bow kites, it seems much safer.


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 Post subject: Re: cabrinha ids self landing problems
PostPosted: Sun Jul 25, 2010 2:13 am 
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I've noticed this happening as well with my kite, but not to the heights you describe. It usually hovers a few feet above the water and I'm usually hustling up the centerline to get it under control.
Not sure what is making yours rise..sorry.


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 Post subject: Re: cabrinha ids self landing problems
PostPosted: Sun Jul 25, 2010 10:49 am 
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I think the IDS works beautifully. Its another/extra way of controlling your kite.
IDS doesnt interfear, its not in the way of anything and you hardly ever need it because depower on demand is enough to keep situations under control. But when you do need it, it is there. Rescue, selflanding etc.

@Dacronkid. My guess is that the kite floats up, because you keep not enough tension on the frontlines. Second, from what i understand the kite is flagged with IDS, but its laying straight downwind from you. In this situation i think keeping tension and walking to the side a little, will cause the kite to stay on the ground. Also with the wind then coming at an angle it is more likely the kite will flip over onto the LE.

Myself i prefer my own method of selflanding the kite. I like this method the best, because the kite doesnt fall from the sky, and there is also no mess with the lines. Maybe not the safest method but i have faith in IDS. Here is what i do:

-look for a clean spot at the side of the windwindow where you gently land the kite: so that it is resting on its wingtip.
-Take a few steps into the wind, creating better tensioned lines and kite.
-Unclip the leash, unhook, lay the bar on the ground while grabbing the depowerstrap.
-Hand over hand towards the centerlines and flying lines until you reach the bridles. Keeping the right tension will keep the kite resting on its wingtip. If you dont keep the tension the kite will drift on its back and slide to the middle of the window. That is no problem, its just not really clean and necessary.

goodluck


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 Post subject: Re: cabrinha ids self landing problems
PostPosted: Sun Jul 25, 2010 11:16 am 
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Location: Bantham, South Devon, UK
need slightly more tension on the back lines (or in fact a longer centre -5th?- line )if the backlines are totally slack the kite will lift, with some tension in them will keep the kite on the ground..however too much tension will add power to the kite.


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 Post subject: Re: cabrinha ids self landing problems
PostPosted: Sun Jul 25, 2010 4:54 pm 
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The pull from the kite is very similar to the pull when holding the leading edge in your hand.

I agree its a bit disconcerting to have it hover up there and you do have to make sure that you pull your way to the kite evenly on both front lines.
It behaves much like a kite on a fifth line. I have the 09 and I just accept that that is about as good as I'm going to get.
I find the 09 bar a pain, as I have to turn it over to wind on the lines. If the ends were hard and shaped right, it would be easy to wind my way up to the bridle.

Sometimes, if the kite comes down to one side of the window, it turns over and parks.


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 Post subject: Re: cabrinha ids self landing problems
PostPosted: Sun Jul 25, 2010 5:55 pm 
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Location: Norway/Europe
Using blacktip's landing method. No need to engage IDS to selfland. And when using the IDS and the kite hoovers upside down, I've never experienced any pull worth mentioning from the kite.


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 Post subject: Re: cabrinha ids self landing problems
PostPosted: Sun Jul 25, 2010 5:55 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 18, 2003 2:53 pm
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Location: New Buffalo Michigan U.S.A
I am very dissapointed that cabrinha does not mention this in there written instructions in the manual or tech videos. They always show the kite sitting stable on its back as the person walks up to the kite to retrieve it. These videos were probably shot with 5-10 mph winds. I dont see any advantage to the ids kites from the older models when it comes to self landing. I would rather have the single centerline flagging system for self landing that is on my older contras. I guess i will need to find some other way of self landing these ids kites . When i land my kite i want it to stay on the ground and not relaunching itself 10-20 ft in the air upside down.

Can other IDS kite users share there experiences and technique for self landing these kites? I wonder if it is only the crossbow { high aspect ratio kites} in the cabrinha lineup that does this? Maybe the swichblades and converts dont behave this way?


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 Post subject: Re: cabrinha ids self landing problems
PostPosted: Sun Jul 25, 2010 6:59 pm 
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Location: PASA Level III Instructor FL- OBX - MI - the world
dacronkid wrote:
I would rather have the single centerline flagging system for self landing that is on my older contras. I guess i will need to find some other way of self landing these ids kites . When i land my kite i want it to stay on the ground and not relaunching itself 10-20 ft in the air upside down.


This topic was discussed exactly 2 years ago and apparently the problem still exists. In light wind the upside down kite in the air is not a problem, but as you say, in higher winds it could be a big problem.

I respect the fact that you have been flying Cabrinha for many years now and know you are very familiar with how to activate and control your kite in dicey situations. Given the fact that the IDS itself continues to have some idiosyncracies perhaps you can modify your bar to have an Oh Shit handle (?). I'd be curious to know if you come up with a different solution.

Since I last commented on the front-line safety systems I have started to use a bar that is designed as such (CORE ESP bar). Since I felt the same way as you, and not trusting the frontline safety system 100%, I set up an Oh Shit handle for this very purpose. So far, IMO, no bar is perfect out of the box.

I have not studeied the newest Cab bars yet to see if this is an option, but I'll try to take a look here in the next few days...if the wind picks up :roll:

PS ...looks like it was ripping in MC this morning (???)...NE and unkiteable up here in MKG at the moment


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