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 Post subject: Re: Yes, Put limits on width of Raceboards ASAP!
PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 8:53 pm 
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d0uglass wrote:
Hmm.

I'm no physics expert, but I think maybe "big guy big board big kite big fins" is theoretically faster than "small guy small board small kite small fins".

Same as it is with windsurfing, if not more so, since there's less physical constraint on how big you can build a kite than how big you can build a windsurf sail. Plus the ability to sine the kite for power gets rid of some of the slow-acceleration probs that big windsurfers have in lighter winds.

With the bigger guy and bigger setup the gusts and chop are probably evened out more, and the guy's tallness probably gives more leverage, too. Kinda like huge multi-hull sailboats are faster in ocean races than small multi-hull sailboats.

Maybe the anxiety to quickly implement a box rule is to keep huge guys on huge boards and kites from coming in and dominating the class? Shaquille O'Neal on a 30 meter kite and 85 cm wide board with 60 cm fins kicking everyone's ass?

-James



Well said James.

While they are touting the box rule as a way to grow the sport it is actually about limiting the type of riders.

I think that there should not be limitations to board and fin size.If the heavyweights end up dominating the sport them make a few classes based on weight.


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 Post subject: Re: Yes, Put limits on width of Raceboards ASAP!
PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 1:11 am 
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PAFF wrote:
There are productions boards coming out know, that cost under $900 making it available to Joe public, they mayby not win the world cup, but they give Joe public a great weekend on the lake, racing his friends in 8 knots having a blast.


I'd agree with this. I think most casual riders will not care too much about winning. I know I can't compete against the pro's and that wasn't the reason for me to participate...I just wanted to have fun, and I had...I'm definitely getting a raceboard.


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 Post subject: Re: Yes, Put limits on width of Raceboards ASAP!
PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 6:59 pm 
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A couple of you guys have lost direction of this thread.
The reason for limiting the size of boards is to keep the greatest number of people in the racing discipline and grow the sport in a healthy way without making it an arms race!!

Some of the conclusions that a bigger board means bigger people will have a better chance at winning is flawed when compared to the history of windsurfing.
Let me tell you a story about the development of windsurfing.
In 1987 a guy named Bjoern Dunkerbeck took over the Overall World Title from a guy named Robby Naish. He went on to win 12 world overall titles.
Boards he rode for slalom in 1987 were about 20.5" wide (52 cm) which is very narrow by today's standard. As boards got wider, he still was dominant!!
So it is not an Advantage of board size. It is an advantage of riders size and leverage as well as determination.
Do not get lost on the Reasons for limiting size, it is about GROWING THE SPORT!
AA


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 Post subject: Re: Yes, Put limits on width of Raceboards ASAP!
PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 7:20 pm 
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I agree with gebi and alex, you guys have seen what happened, and learned from it.
I knew folks who moved to a San Francisco in the 90s, really got into windsurfing,
but quit the sport after 3 or 4 years.

The unrestrained design spiral to bigger and overspecialized boards was the main reason.
They would go out and cruise, speed runs on the flood, B&J on the ebb.
After a while they noticed who was always passing them or heading farther upwind, and what they were riding.

So the next year they got wider boards with deeper fins....
Repeating this for 3 more years, it became ridiculous, and they quit.
You can only fit so many formula boards in a SF garage!!!
Now after a hiatus from boardsports, they kite.

Performance at the top of sports drives the gear available, and the consumers' aspirations.
Reasonable limits at the top can keep things in control, and help make talent, rather than deep pockets, the common denominator for pros (and amateurs).
If this means pointing 2 degrees lower and giving up racing in 6 knots and waiting for 8 knots, fine, it will make for better races.
Pushing the bottom end of windsports has obvious diminishing returns, there is only so much energy to harvest!


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 Post subject: Re: Yes, Put limits on width of Raceboards ASAP!
PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 9:03 pm 
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alex a wrote:
A couple of you guys have lost direction of this thread.
The reason for limiting the size of boards is to keep the greatest number of people in the racing discipline and grow the sport in a healthy way without making it an arms race!!

.....................
Do not get lost on the Reasons for limiting size, it is about GROWING THE SPORT!
AA


That !? was the point ?

I thought we did not want fat guys to win.....or was it Fred?
i forget.
sorry


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 Post subject: Re: Yes, Put limits on width of Raceboards ASAP!
PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 9:45 pm 
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Personally I'm not intrested in entering racing competitions myself.
But as a tall, heavy kitesurfer I find that the industry does not keep in ming large or very small riders.
Rules like this board width limitation will just continue this narrow minded trend.
I think it is much fairer to let people race with as wide a board as they want.

An undeniable fact is that in low wind a small rider uses a smaller board than a bit rider. A very big rider should be alowed to use a very big board.

Some board designer/makers on this thread claim that there is no need for bigger boards....
Well if that is the case they will go away by themselves.

personally I would like to see how amazing a 300 lbs very strong race could do with the grear of his choice.

Also it is far more practical for an indipendant rider to make a big board than to make his own ovewrsized kite.


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 Post subject: Re: Yes, Put limits on width of Raceboards ASAP!
PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2010 7:27 pm 
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I think the Fedex dimensions were off, so I am not totally going back on my previous post. But I think 70cm is a bit too narrow especially considering that a few have already gone above 70 cm in width. Myself included, and I weigh 175 lbs.

A Fedex express example: a board that is 70cm in width would be about 30 inches with packaging and about 5 inches thick with packaging leaving it possible to only go about 5'5 in length. With with ground much wider and longer is possible. So my point is, lets base this idea on performance and not shipping or manufacturing.

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 Post subject: Re: Yes, Put limits on width of Raceboards ASAP!
PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2010 8:05 pm 
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alex a wrote:
A couple of you guys have lost direction of this thread.
The reason for limiting the size of boards is to keep the greatest number of people in the racing discipline and grow the sport in a healthy way without making it an arms race!!


You still have not given an expanation as to why limiting boards size will attract more paople to the spot?

Why would it make it an arms race???

Lots of things make it an arms race. So do you want to limit kite sizes, kite types, overall wingspan or projected area.

How about limiting the amount of boards a rider can have.

It's far more of an arms race if a rider can choose from one of 10 boards compared to the average Joe who only has one board.

What about fancy materials? IF board sizes and hence designs were limited development would go in the direction of fancy materials and hellishly expensive gear like just what happened in the mountainbiking world.

Does the fact that you want to manufacture your boards in Vietnam and shipping costs have anything to do with it? Cheap manufacturing a long way from the market palce and the profit offset of shipping. Vietnam and Hawaii are far away from the flat water makets of Europe.

Quote:
Now, I would like to bring my passions of Kiteboarding and SUP’s to you! I have worked for many years with Jimmy Lewis, who is a master shaper/designer of all types of boards and he has helped me put my line of boards into production where his great boards are made in Vietnam. If you know Jimmy Lewis boards, you know they are made with top of the line construction and attention to detail! This is the main reason I wanted to get the boards produced there!



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 Post subject: Re: Yes, Put limits on width of Raceboards ASAP!
PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2010 8:11 pm 
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Hey howabout making Fedex a shipping partner. Give them strong visability on the tours in exchange for special or free shipping rates for x boards for every racer.

Now that would attract more people to the sport.


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 Post subject: Re: Yes, Put limits on width of Raceboards ASAP!
PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2010 11:55 pm 
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FredBGG,

Where in any of my posts does it mention anything about Jimmy Lewis?? I am the distributor for that brand, but any race boards that I make are my own, for myself and a few friends. Would be good for you to do a bit of research before assuming.

The point I was trying to make was two part. One, not to limit boards based on Fedex. Again if you had researched my posts my second point was agreeing with the "fundamental" reasons that Alex and Gebi posted.

However it is good to have you pushing to keep this "open". This will give us plenty of time to research as shapers and riders before a committee can make a ruling.

Garry
www.kiteracing.com


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