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 Post subject: Re: cabrinha ids self landing problems
PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 12:06 am 
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Joined: Tue Feb 18, 2003 2:53 pm
Posts: 42
Location: New Buffalo Michigan U.S.A
Yes Brad ,i have tried this also a couple of times. With IDS activated with the kite at the edge of the window in moderate winds the kite will tumble and roll on its back downwind then immediatly lift off the ground 10-15 feet and hover there. If you pull yourself toward the kite on the centerlines it will climb higher in the sky. If this is normal than i am ok with it. I just thought i was doing something wrong or have a voodoo kite. The cabrinha tech videos do not show this behavior.


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 Post subject: Re: cabrinha ids self landing problems
PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 1:02 am 
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Joined: Sat Jul 03, 2004 12:52 am
Posts: 145
Location: Lake Michigan
thanks Rusty. Your are definitely experienced enough to not be "doing something wrong". The whole point of the perfect safety system should be that if you deploy, you're good. I am scratching my head trying to understand the combination of factors that put the kite in this mode. But even when it happened, it still seemed just seemed like 5th line kind of light pressure that allowed me to get to the kite without feeling at risk. Of course different kite sizes have different characteristics, and I have not flown yours.

I will say this, I have total faith and comfort in landing with the IDS when the wind has picked up to outside the kite's normal range, and to me, that is very valuable. It's not perfect, but it is safe and effective.

Thanks for the feedback and for riding the Cabs.


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 Post subject: Re: cabrinha ids self landing problems
PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 1:11 am 
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Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2005 8:28 pm
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Location: i m lost cause kiting adrenaline steal my soul with heart
i still have 2010 cabrinha switchblade and release 5 th line IDS for solo landing also nice seeing vooodooo kite fly high make wind still alive , lol then i pull front line faster to catch kite :thumb: nothing worry with voodoo kite :jump:


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 Post subject: Re: cabrinha ids self landing problems
PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 5:20 am 
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Joined: Sun Sep 06, 2009 10:08 am
Posts: 37
Location: Mui Ne, Viet Nam
Any kite using a safety line other than a single attachment point directly to the center of the LE (simple five-line system) opens the possibility of incomplete power-down on flag-out (when the QR is pulled or when the safety line is used for self-landing). Safety systems which use one or both front lines attached to a bridle whose load is spread across part of the LE can prevent the panels from going completely parallel to the wind direction, which is necessary for maximum flag-out depower. Same thing with the "death spiral" caused by attaching safety leash to an oh shit handle. Same thing with a fifth line which goes into a Y or a W to spread the load along the LE. (on some 5th line SLE kites)

These systems may work most of the time. And, recent improvements in bridle systems such as the IDS improve your odds greatly over previous models. But depending on how the kite falls (such as on its LE with the interior facing you), and if it's pumping to 30 knots, attempting to recover your kite/do a self-rescue on an incompletely depowered kite may only result in slicing up your hands (I've seen it happen on that system) as you try to work your way up the lines.

I've had to do enough kite recoveries and self-rescues over the years that now I just retrofit my kites with a 5th line running directly from the kite and through the bar to a ring on my side of the bar. It shouldn't pass through any other loops, rings, or chicken loop parts as that tends to hinder the bar as it slides down the line. I use about 7m of leader line at my end and after that a stopper where the leader line changes to normal kite line. Simple seems to work best here.

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DiRvwbE7hOg]

matt-0


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 Post subject: Re: cabrinha ids self landing problems
PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 6:43 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jul 03, 2004 12:52 am
Posts: 145
Location: Lake Michigan
I hear what you are saying Matt, and I respect that. A competent user can be safe and effective with a lot of different systems. The perfect safety system is safe and effective even for an incompetent rider. Not sure there is a perfect system as of today, or if there every will be. "You can't fix stupid", right? As for a "simple 5 line system", you can debate 5 lines with one line to the LE vs. 4 lines with bridle to the LE. I like the idea of one line (5th), because you simply go up that one line. With the two fronts acting like a 5th line, you need to be aware of keeping them roughly equal as you go up the kite. the load per line is roughly cut in have though in the IDS. Additionally, with the IDS, even after 50 one way kite loops/twists, you can still safely pull your way up the fronts. A 5th line with too many twists becomes one with the fronts and in certain circumstances won't let you out of the power.

I rode from 7am -8:30am at Muskegon on Lake Michigan today in 25-30 gusty knots, and self landed (3 other riders out but riding) with the kite at the edge and it stayed there until I got all the way to it. It was my 9M SwitchBlade. not saying the hover voodoo thing does not happen...just never had it happen on any of my kites in ridiculous wind.

It's a great discussion...


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 Post subject: Re: cabrinha ids self landing problems
PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 8:46 pm 
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Location: Distributor/Cabrinha/Miami
Let's not forget that single point attaching 5th lines have a bad habit of ripping kites in half when they invert (kites tend to invert at weirdest times - don't they??). Also, no 5th line system is spinning that I have ever seen. To correct Brad a little bit, you can use IDS doing a self rescue and while winding the bar, it's fine to give two or three extra wraps of one of the front lines once you get to the split. This slightly turns the kite and renders it even more useless to the chance of bumpy conditions allowing wind to get under the LE. As far as the upside down flying goes, this is something that happens to a lot of kites. If you hold the front line and walk to the kite climbing the front lines, it magically ends up down on the ground.


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 Post subject: Re: cabrinha ids self landing problems
PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 3:31 am 
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Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2009 12:02 am
Posts: 148
An easy way to wrap up a Cabrinha IDS kite.
Step 1 Activate the IDS by pushing the release
Step 2 Pull the IDS line until you reach Quick Release. Be sure to hang on to the line and not let it slip back.
Step 3 Wrap the IDS line around the bar 5 or 6 times so it does not slip.
Step 4 Wrap all the lines up. When you reach the kite grab the LE.

This works great and the kite does not pull when you are winding it up. If the kite goes in the air because it landed wing tips up it actually makes the wrap easier. The only time the kite goes wingtips up, in my experience, is in very light winds.


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 Post subject: Re: cabrinha ids self landing problems
PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 2:36 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2004 11:53 pm
Posts: 952
Cab Driver wrote:

Also, no 5th line system is spinning that I have ever seen.


I think that the Flysurfer and then the Core "hollow swivel" which allows the fifth line to pass through the exact center of of the swivel connecting the 2 front lines to the power line, allowed the kite to spin around, without tangling any lines, much like a wheel rotates around an axle. The fifth line follows this course, from the attachment on the kite: (1) through the center of the "hollow swivel" where the 2 front lines attach to the top of the power line adjuster, then, (2) through the center of the bar hole, then, through the center of the chicken loop release mechanism, and ends up at (3) the center of the chicken loop, where it is attached to the short kite leash.

I think that other companies are copying that design, which allows the system to have a fifth line safety and also allows the bar to spin.

If someone knows more about this and can verify the above...or can correct me, if I am wrong, then, please do so...I would appreciate it,


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 Post subject: Re: cabrinha ids self landing problems
PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 3:48 pm 
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Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2007 10:48 pm
Posts: 1230
Cab Driver wrote:
... Also, no 5th line system is spinning that I have ever seen.


http://www.live2kite.com/flexifoil-axis-swivel-depower-strap-p-316.html


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 Post subject: Re: cabrinha ids self landing problems
PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 7:43 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jul 03, 2004 12:52 am
Posts: 145
Location: Lake Michigan
had some gusty lit conditions this past Friday on Lake Michigan so I took the opportunity to shoot IDS deployment and self landing on a 2011 10M Crossbow....basically the same system as 2010 IDS:



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