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 Post subject: Re: 2011 Ocean Rodeo line-up - new additions!
PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 5:30 pm 
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Location: San Francisco, CA
I got to spend 2+ hours yesterday on the 2011 8m Razor and it is sick!!! Here is my review.

First - I am 185 lbs, riding a 5'4" Naish surfboard, in wind in the low 20's at Crissy field in San Francisco. I have had OR Rises every year for the last 4 years, Torches before that. I'll mainly compare it to the Rise.

I took this kite out despite the fact that everyone was on 10m and 11m, I just really wanted to try it.

The kite is lower aspect than the rise with a more pronounced "C" shape. It's nice and light with the 4 struts. In the sky it has more of a deep pocketed look, like a wainman does above you.

Power:
I was blown away by the low end grunt. I was well powered and I felt like the kite had the power of almost 10m Rise, more power than the 9m Rise. It's also very easy to generate power with the kite. It sits a bit further back than the Rise, but not way back like a real wave kite (Kima, Catalyst, Renagade)
The Razor does not handle the gusts as well as the rise or other such kites. You feel what the wind is doing and you need to use your board bore to control power, you can't just turn it off by sheeting out. It's more like a C kite in this way, but not that harsh.

At 185 lbs I will be getting 6,8,10 to replace my 7,9,11 Rises. You will not be able to run huge 4m gaps between Razors, you'll end up disappointed. ( I think that 4m gaps suck on any kite)

Turning:
This is where it shines. It was super fast, even for an 8m. It zips across the window really fast. There is much more consistant pull through turns than the Rise and it climbs back up much faster without having to sheet way out. I didn't have real waves, but rode a few head high tanker wakes which are like sideshore wave. It is way better at this than the Rise, you just have fast steady power thoughout the turn and it's much harder to stall, even riding right at it.
The bar is very sensitive to inputs, which I like, but might be less forgiving to some riders.

Jumping:
Timing might be a bit harder, but it has good yank and great loft. It jumps as well as any other kite i've been on. LOOPS are where it also shines. I liked the rise a lot, but it didn't loop great. The Razor generates much more power and catches you much better for softer landings. I had so much fun I must have done 50 kiteloops. I didn't unhook while riding, but I did on the beach and without trimming at all the kite stayed stable and didn't stall. Ideally it needs a bit of trim, but not a ton.

Relaunch
I crashed the Razor a few times to test relaunch and it is also better. Due to the lower aspect it will move by itself (auto-relaunch) to the edge of the window and wait to be steered into the sky. I didn't need to pull a line at all. Granted this was on an 8m in decent wind.

All in all I would say this is definitely the kite to buy if you are an advanced rider or an intermediate looking to get into waves or freestyle. It is a much more involved, direct ride and will reward a good rider. For those looking to just cruise and do some jumps I would still get the Rise. The Rise has better range, better high end and a more forgiving ride. The Rise will still be a better kite for racing due to it's range and upwind ability.

I hope this helps.

Anyone want to buy my hardly used 2010 11m Rise with bar? :D


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 Post subject: Re: 2011 Ocean Rodeo line-up - new additions!
PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 6:31 pm 
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When will these be available to shops? Anyone doing demos on the East Coast?


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 Post subject: Re: 2011 Ocean Rodeo line-up - new additions!
PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 8:51 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2005 2:36 am
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Location: California, US Sales Ocean Rodeo Kiteboarding/Hyperflex Wetsuits
tbennett wrote:
When will these be available to shops? Anyone doing demos on the East Coast?


10m Razors are already in stock and shipping to stores (some have them already) - the rest of the sizes will be available in October. We don't have East coast demo plans at the moment, but all of our major retailers have demo kites available. You can also take advantage of our 100% Customer Satisfaction guarantee. Buy a new one, and if you don't like it you have 30 days to return it.

Cheers,

Evan

Ocean Rodeo
Hyperflex Wetsuits


Performance over Hype


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 Post subject: Re: 2011 Ocean Rodeo line-up - new additions!
PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 2:40 am 
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Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2003 7:48 pm
Posts: 144
Location: Charleston SC
I just ordered my 8, 10, 12 Razors, been riding Rise since 2007, really looking forward to the Razor. I'll post my review here after I get a few sessions on it but the reason I'm switching this year is:

Looping
More power through turns

I'll really be interested to see if the kite jumps as high as the Rise, how much up-wind-ability I'll lose, and what the bar pressure and gust absorption differences will be like. I'm hoping this kite kind of falls 1/2 way between the Rise and an old school C-Kite. I'm dreaming that is the best of both worlds but I suspect there will be aspects of the Rise that I miss.

I'll let you know, keep the reviews coming, I'm living vicariously at the moment until my quiver arrives.


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 Post subject: Re: 2011 Ocean Rodeo line-up - new additions!
PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 2:44 am 
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Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2003 7:48 pm
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Location: Charleston SC
For riders familiar with the Rise and the Razor, what is the jump timing like on the Razor?

Do you need to send it from a bit lower than the Rise, like 10 instead of 11?

Do you need to time the pop a little more aggressively?

What about hang time, my C prejudice has been that they get up and down more quickly. The first time I got a floaty Rise jump I was smiling all day, is it possible that the Razor has hang time equivalent to the Rise? That seems like too much to ask.

Just wondering what to expect. Have not ridden a C in 3 years.


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 Post subject: Re: 2011 Ocean Rodeo line-up - new additions!
PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 7:28 am 
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Location: San Francisco, CA
You will feel right at home on the Razor. Jump timing is a bit different, but easy to figure out and the jumps are huge. It has great float too, not a fast drop like a C.

that 12m is a big kite and you'll only need it in the light stuff.


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 Post subject: Re: 2011 Ocean Rodeo line-up - new additions!
PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 12:52 pm 
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Location: Charleston SC
eag wrote:
You will feel right at home on the Razor. Jump timing is a bit different, but easy to figure out and the jumps are huge. It has great float too, not a fast drop like a C.

that 12m is a big kite and you'll only need it in the light stuff.


Hey Evan, thanks.

Still trying to get an idea on the sizing. Would I go with same quiver on Razor as I had on the Rise? 8,10,12? (I use the 10 the most)

Or perhaps 8,10 Razor and an 11 Rise for lighter wind days? I don't need an uber light wind kite, I'm talking 14-17 mph as light.


Last edited by GhostDog on Sun Sep 26, 2010 12:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 2011 Ocean Rodeo line-up - new additions!
PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 7:06 am 
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The 12M Rise is never really enough kite for light wind for me. Of course I have not gone the surfboard strapless route that seems to get everyone down to tiny kites for light wind days. Mako King and a 12M Rise is still not cuttin' it for me as the light wind rig.


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 Post subject: Re: 2011 Ocean Rodeo line-up - new additions!
PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 12:56 pm 
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Oldnbroken wrote:
The 12M Rise is never really enough kite for light wind for me. Of course I have not gone the surfboard strapless route that seems to get everyone down to tiny kites for light wind days. Mako King and a 12M Rise is still not cuttin' it for me as the light wind rig.


personally I have not found the Mako king to be a particularly great light wind board. It's an unbelievable wave board, and busts up chop like speading butter, but in direct board to board comparison's on light days with all other factors equal I didn't find the Mako King to be any better, if anything it needs some speed to perform.

I generally use the Mako on higher wind days with big NE waves, like an 8 Rise, 25 MPH, and big waves is an insane setup, the Mako is just sick.

Every year for 10 years I hear about 'lightwind' setups, in my experience, you can't beat physics, at a certain wind speed kiting is just not fun. In my experience the line between fun and not fun is around 14-15 MPH, depending on currents. The Rise is about as good a light wind kite as I have ever tried but it is still boring to kite in < 15 MPH winds..

My experience with C-Kites has been that on lighter wind days you end up walking the beach quite a bit. With the RISE, if you can kite you can stay upwind, so I'm trying to gauge if the Razor is going to be more like a C or the Rise in respect to lighter winds. My thoughts are that I'll want the Razor for windy days and perhaps a 10 or 11 Rise for the ~15 MPH days.. But if the 10 Razor will get me out and upwind in 14-16 then maybe I can go with 2 kites or get a 6 Razor instead of a 12


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 Post subject: Re: 2011 Ocean Rodeo line-up - new additions!
PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 1:23 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2010 3:13 am
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first day today in WA on an 8m razor. Scored an 8m and 6m for a few weeks before the shipment comes in.
Conditions:
looking at graphs it was average 13-16 knots, so light cross-on. I am 81kg and was on a standard shape 6 foot strapless surfboard. Most others were on 10-14's, my mate was on his 9m rev and 6 footer to try to compare. Firstly did not have a bar so borrowed a brand new other branded kite bar but it should be similar in that it has above the bar depower and a mini 5th (have had this on my flexifoils for years and it is good for trying stuff but i ended up taking it off and just running suicide for waves as less tangling)
connection points were opposite to all other kites (whats with that?), or maybe there should be pigtails that i didnt have.
In the sky the kite was going backwards and felt weird. dropped it and shortened the front lines and was heaps better, tho still not fully stable to what i am used to but it was very light and it is an 8m. Up and away! man she pulls. i was holding ground no worries and after comparing with the 9m rev and the other guy on a 10m rebel it had way more power.
First wave, unhooked and it went backwards then fell down. sad...
did relaunch quick tho.
kite down and shortened front lines more. felt way better in sky and really started to enjoy it. turns fast and doesnt pull thru turns in my opoinionwhich isgood for waves. Very different as i am used to a kite that does pull thru turns so have to get used to it. Tried another unhook with shorter front lines and it was ok, but the wind was prob down to like 12-14max knots so hard to judge (did have to depower about an inch to what i was riding with). pretty good for an 8 in such low winds.
I shall post more as i try more.I think i will like these kites once i get the setup dialed and will be able to "surf more" on them as opposed to the kite pulling.
look forward to some solid wind...


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