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 Post subject: Re: 2011 Ocean Rodeo line-up - new additions!
PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 3:03 am 
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Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2009 6:50 am
Posts: 10
This might be a stupid question to all the experienced riders out there but.........for 85 kg guy would you be looking at at 12m Razor/ 9 or 8m Rise as a great 2 kite quiver?????? The low end of the razor and stability of the rise as wind howls.

Curious like a cat,
JD


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 Post subject: Re: 2011 Ocean Rodeo line-up - new additions!
PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 3:42 am 
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Location: Save a life...adopt a Pitbull
The Rise kites have always relaunched for me 8M, 9M, 10M, 12M.
The 2008 Rise 14M did not relaunch well for me... light wind, big kite...crappy relaunch.


Last edited by Oldnbroken on Fri Oct 15, 2010 1:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 2011 Ocean Rodeo line-up - new additions!
PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 1:23 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2003 7:48 pm
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Location: Charleston SC
Cvaradero wrote:
Ok, we must be talking about a different Rise here.

1. Didn't loop great (although the 2010 looped pretty well)
2. Didn't relaunch well at all
3. Didn't power through turns very well.

Really? Are you kidding me? Sorry Ghost but I can't agree with you on this, I have had in my quiver the 10m rise for a while, since 2009 the Rise it has been a kite that relaunch super easy, fast and with no trouble whatsoever, I don't know with year you had or what settings you were using on your Rise, but I can tell you different from my experience. Every year I try back to back different kites brands and the Rise is always one of top 3. ch


I should have perhaps qualified my statements. I have ridden the Rise every year since 2007. Each year I have a full quiver. Each year the kite has become better. 2007-2008 was a big improvement, 2008-09 was incremental, 2009 -2010 was huge, I wrote on here at the time that it was like a 30% improvement.

The thing I like about Ocean Rodeo as a company is that they are an engineering company that makes kites, as opposed to a lifestyle company that makes kites. Each year they take a scientific approach to their lineup, and make the necessary tweaks. Their lineup improves each year. I have never seen it go backwards (like you see with other kite companies). Since 2006 (first time I tried an OR kite) their kites have been better each and every year.

I should also say that I am a Rise junkie. It's the only kite I have owned the past 3 years. I'm pretty much convinced it's the best kite ever produced. I have over 250 sessions on a Rise 6,8,10 or 12. So, I wasn't trying to disrespect the kite, but you have to admit that where the kite is almost 'perfect' it has a few things that you wish were better...

My comments are meant for a very experienced Rise rider, someone who has been riding them for 2,3,4 years. If you are a beginner or intermediate rider (Rise or otherwise) you probably won't notice any of these things. These are subtle things that you begin to notice over time as you become one with the kite :)

1. Looping. The 2010 Rise loops very well, especially for an SLE, that was one of the huge improvements from 2009, but it still doesn't loop as well as a more C-shaped kite. It's kind of the same problem as the not coming out of turns powered, it doesn't make it back to the zenith with full power, this is really just an SLE thing, the Venturi on the Rise really made this kite Loop very well for an SLE, in fact I called it a 'looping machine' after switching from 09 to 10, but as I get more experienced Looping I want more! I have 2 sessions on the Razor now and the Razor is a LOOPING machine. You come out of the loops more powered going downwind, just feels more consistent and powered.

2. As much as I love the kite, I never felt like any of the RISE kites relaunched super easily. I guess It's just me maybe I'm missing a trick that others have figured out. They seem to take a particular style to launch, kind of bring it up on one edge, then reverse it quickly and hope it rolls over, then work it all the way across the wind window. Sometimes you can pull center lines and hot launch it, sometimes you need to work at it. I have noticed the new bridle attachment on the Razor (also on this year's Rise) cures that problem, I dropped the kite yesterday and it rolled right over on it's back and then streaked out to the edge of the wind window, brilliant tweak on the bridle, very subtle yet ingenious and effective.

3. The Rise, and most SLE, power through the turns until you come out the other side and then there is a bit of as 'stall' as you turn back upwind. If you have ever ridden an SS Fuel or a North Vegas (2006 model), when you power through a turn you come out full speed in the other direction, this was harder to do on the RISE, you have to sine wave the kite or head down wind a bit to pick up speed coming out of the turn. Again, I love the kite, it's nothing terrible, just a small thing that could be nicer.

All that said, I still feel like the 2010 RISE was just about the perfect kite, the best one I have ever flown. I'm getting some 2011 Razors and keeping a couple of 2010 Rises in my quiver, probably going to have:

8 and 10 meter Razor
7 and 10 meter Rise

So I can mix it up.


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 Post subject: Re: 2011 Ocean Rodeo line-up - new additions!
PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 2:06 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 1:57 pm
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Location: Canada
Ghost, I have been riding since 2001, and riding everyday, literally everyday, so I think I am well past the intermediate level, let's leave it like that :D The Rise is not a C kite (I miss the C kites) and for been a SLE is a wicked kite, as i said before it is one of the best SLE in the market, so when I wrote my previous post i had this in mind, that's why i didn't agree with you on your statement. I will be adding a Razor to my quiver and I will wait for the new improved Diablo.
Cheers
Charley


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 Post subject: Re: 2011 Ocean Rodeo line-up - new additions!
PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 8:09 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2003 7:48 pm
Posts: 144
Location: Charleston SC
Cvaradero wrote:
Ghost, I have been riding since 2001, and riding everyday, literally everyday, so I think I am well past the intermediate level, let's leave it like that :D The Rise is not a C kite (I miss the C kites) and for been a SLE is a wicked kite, as i said before it is one of the best SLE in the market, so when I wrote my previous post i had this in mind, that's why i didn't agree with you on your statement. I will be adding a Razor to my quiver and I will wait for the new improved Diablo.
Cheers
Charley


Every day, where the hell do you live? I want to move there :) I ride 100 times a year and feel guilty :)

I think we are on the same page, I could have said it more succinctly, as you did. The RISE is the best SLE on market. Sometimes a former C rider misses a few things about the C kite, which is why I am PUMPED up about the Razor. It's like a C-kite version of the RISE :)


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 Post subject: Re: 2011 Ocean Rodeo line-up - new additions!
PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 10:47 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 1:57 pm
Posts: 187
Location: Canada
where do I live? It it a secret :lol: I live in Varadero Cuba, well I am not there now but thats the place to kite all year around, shhhhhhhshhhh Don't tell anyone, just kidding everyboddy is welcome to come and enjoy the wind beach and the ladies :P

I havent try the razor yet but I will get one very soon, A couple of old riders that I trust have a very good opinion about it, and all I have heard is good things, I will let you know :thumb:

cheers
charley


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 Post subject: Re: 2011 Ocean Rodeo line-up - new additions!
PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 11:33 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2005 1:17 am
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Location: Save a life...adopt a Pitbull
I have a buddy whose family left Cuba when he was two.
He wishes that it was (had become) part of the USA.
I really don't know enough about the current status of things there/here etc., to even know about visiting there.
He says he would like to move back there for the kiting, if nothing else.


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 Post subject: Re: 2011 Ocean Rodeo line-up - new additions!
PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 3:03 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 1:57 pm
Posts: 187
Location: Canada
3 out of 10 cubans have family on the US, including myself. Travelling is pretty simple from the Cuban authorities side, now, the US government have restrictions on who goes and comes out of the island, I have met many americans in Varadero, they have made it flying to a third country and then to Cuba.

the wind is ridiculous good, there is always wind, I remember one time we went crazy with no wind for 10 days, that was around August and the it was the only time since 2001. Before and after the hurricanes is incredible, we have this spot (flat) as a backup for when the waves are to strong and they don't let you get out of the shore (onshore winds), anyway there is a spot for every wind direction, all of them in walking distance or 5 min cab. There are some kiters that have come to Cuba for a week to the all inclusive resorts and they haven't had good luck with the wind, mostly all this cases is because a very strong hurricane formation or other storms before they arrive, so what i am trying to say is that nothing is perfect 8)

cheers
charley


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 Post subject: Re: 2011 Ocean Rodeo line-up - new additions!
PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 10:28 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2006 11:23 pm
Posts: 62
Location: Varberg, Sweden
Cvaradero wrote:
Ok, we must be talking about a different Rise here.

1. Didn't loop great (although the 2010 looped pretty well)
2. Didn't relaunch well at all
3. Didn't power through turns very well.

Really? Are you kidding me? Sorry Ghost but I can't agree with you on this, I have had in my quiver the 10m rise for a while, since 2009 the Rise it has been a kite that relaunch super easy, fast and with no trouble whatsoever, I don't know with year you had or what settings you were using on your Rise, but I can tell you different from my experience. Every year I try back to back different kites brands and the Rise is always one of top 3.

Am I the only one here who disagrees with Ghost? if thats the case, I am the one who ended with a unique special edition of Rise just for me, because I wouldn't change a thing on mine.

PS the Razor is a wicked beast! I do agree with you on this ;)

cheers
ch


I agree totally with Ghost on P2 and P3 after I have used the Rise from 2008. Earlier I had a 10m 2008 and now I have a 12m 2010 and both have the same behavior of those points. It relaunch but not very easy. Of course it depend on the wind but if the wind is light, it's very hard to make it turn around and you must instead use both back lines to get it up from water or snow. I think my 2008 10m was easier to relaunch than my new 12m.
Same with the turning, it looses power in the turns unless you have power in the lines all the time. About the P1 I can't say because I don't do kiteloops :)

/henrik


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 Post subject: Re: 2011 Ocean Rodeo line-up - new additions!
PostPosted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 9:02 am 
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Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2006 8:46 pm
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Location: SC
Finally have had about 6-7 sessions on the 10m Razor
Here are my thoughts....based on 195lb/88kg rider on a 138/42 board.

1. Low End = Ridiculous. 2 of my sessions were in conditions I would not normally have ridden in, with light 14-15 knot winds. 10m got me up and staying upwind. Power felt very immediate and more grunty than Rise.

2. Upwind = No Probablo. The kite definitely sits deeper in the window and I was concerned that this would mean less upwind ability. Staying and going up wind is no problem…I haven’t ridden it back to back with my 10m Rise but if it’s not equal in terms of upwind ability (esp in light winds) then it is close.

3. Turning = Fast and Powerful. Turning is fast. Not super fast - like cut all your bars down to 30 cm. But fast. Faster than the Rise by a just a bit in my opinion - the Rise was a fast turning kite mind you. What is nice is that the kite really generates a lot of power i the turn, even from deep in the window. This was noticeably better from the Rise.

4. Loops = Very Fast and Powerful. Loops are really nice! In the air and on the water - they have noticeably more pull than the Rise. I loved looping the Rise, the 2010 was killer in loops, fast and climbed nicely back to the top of the window to catch you before landing. You just had to have a fair amount of wind to really get a hard yank out of the Rise. With the Razor you really get that pull with a lot less wind. Very Nice.

5. Jumps = No Downside here. The Razor jumps really well. The Rise was a booster - ripped you off water and kept you there. Haven’t been able to really test the Razor fully lit but I was pleased with the lift and the hang time. Totally stable in the air. Think with the right amount of wind you could really score some serious altitude.

6. Relaunch = Ridiculously good. Crashed it once on purpose and several times accidently. Before I could even hook back in (on the accidental crashes) it was at the edge of window and nearly in the air. If you struggle to relaunch, this is your kite.

7. Unhooked = Fantastic. Initially I had some back stall but checked my flying line lengths and the front lines has stretched by almost 6 inches - trimmed the lines to be equal and the kite unhooks with zero back stall. It also gives predictable power when unhooking. With a straight SLE when unhooking I felt like I didn’t really know how much power I was going to get - a simple railey could turn into a 20 foot jump. Not so with the Razor - very consistent power unhooked, very stable in the air.

8. Range = So far so good. Low end is there, nuff said. At 195 lb (88 kgs) the 10 has plenty of power, especially for hooked in riding - in light winds there may be a role for 12m to get a little more pop when unhooking, but I would think only if you 185 lbs plus. Rode with gusts up to 20 and never felt like it was out of control, If you are one of those people who rides a 12m from 12 to 30 knots you will likely notice less range/high end. However if you ride kites in their sweet spot you and rig down appropriately I think you not even notice a difference in the high end.

Over all this is killer kite. Areas I think the areas it has a real advantage over the Rise are low end “grunty-ness”, power throughout the turns/loops and unhooked. Although advanced riders will get the most out of this kite I think even beginners will really benefit from the direct power, low end pull and ease of relaunch. I love both kites and will have both in my quiver for now.

Feel free to pm with questions.


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