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 Post subject: Re: North Race Ltd 2011 vs Cabrinha Race 2011
PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 12:02 pm 
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swell wrote:
Ok, I ride the North LTD 2011. It is OK for moderate wind, but as for realy light wind you will need a board with minimum 70+ wide, 3 fin setup and 30+cm long fins. Besides of course a biger kite (min 14) and 40-50m lines. Than you can race in 2 knots of wind. No of production board can do that now, but many customs can. Racing in that wind has nothing to do with your spent time on the water, because there are no critical speeds at that wind wich would be hard to control.
With a 14 Rebel '11 and 40 lines I can race in 5 knots, when the wind drops below that, tha board does not glide anymore, so it's not going upwind at all. A fried of mine has build a board himself (180cmx70cm) and that board goes upwind in realy light wind without gliding.
So riding technique starts at 6-7 knots, below that there is more matter of right equipment.


sorry, I am pulling the BULLSHIT handle here...

4knots is just about believable.

2knots.

get the fuck out of town, that is just plain stupid talk!

there is not a single inflatable that will fly in 2 knots, they will barely fly in 4!


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 Post subject: Re: North Race Ltd 2011 vs Cabrinha Race 2011
PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 7:52 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2004 6:48 pm
Posts: 312
Tone wrote:
swell wrote:
Ok, I ride the North LTD 2011. It is OK for moderate wind, but as for realy light wind you will need a board with minimum 70+ wide, 3 fin setup and 30+cm long fins. Besides of course a biger kite (min 14) and 40-50m lines. Than you can race in 2 knots of wind. No of production board can do that now, but many customs can. Racing in that wind has nothing to do with your spent time on the water, because there are no critical speeds at that wind wich would be hard to control.
With a 14 Rebel '11 and 40 lines I can race in 5 knots, when the wind drops below that, tha board does not glide anymore, so it's not going upwind at all. A fried of mine has build a board himself (180cmx70cm) and that board goes upwind in realy light wind without gliding.
So riding technique starts at 6-7 knots, below that there is more matter of right equipment.


sorry, I am pulling the BULLSHIT handle here...

4knots is just about believable.

2knots.

get the fuck out of town, that is just plain stupid talk!

there is not a single inflatable that will fly in 2 knots, they will barely fly in 4!



Yea man, i know it's hard to believe... welcome to kiteracing! :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: North Race Ltd 2011 vs Cabrinha Race 2011
PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 8:25 pm 
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Joined: Fri Apr 30, 2010 12:50 am
Posts: 79
wow, lots of strange opinions floating around.

I haven't ridden the North LTD 2011 so I can't comment on that, but I am very familiar with the cabrinha board and with Alex Aguera customs.

where things stand right now in terms of board development. There is no board (in my opinion) that is better overall than the AA CR 59. This board dominated at Worlds and the carribean champs (between Koch and Leroy). This is also the exact same as the cabrinha Ltd. The only difference is that the cabrinha version is build stronger, and is a little heavier. But otherwise the same.

The debate about tri-vs quad remains alive. In my opinion the quad overall will win around the race course because of its better upwind angle. The tri is more forgiving (especially downwind) but overall across the full range of wind conditions, I don't think it's AS good. And I've been riding a lot of tri's lately...i want to see I can make them feel AS good as the quad...but I haven't. Does that mean you cannot win on a tri? Of course not. You can certainly make it work....but if you want the absolute best (not the easiest to ride mind you) it is the quad.

we recently did board testing here in miami with Alex's latest shapes. The bottom line? The CR 59 is still the go to board. There are other designs that may have slight advantages in lighter wind...but OVERALL, a board that performs in 10knots - 40 knots....it's still one of, if not the best.

Another way to look at it...in our 6 rider training...the best rider always won, regardless of which board they were on (we were testing 6 boards). So I think we've reached a point where the board shape is sort of leveling off in terms of design...and now the focus (as it always has been) is on the riders technique, the fins and the kite.

my two cents

-patrick


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 Post subject: Re: North Race Ltd 2011 vs Cabrinha Race 2011
PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 11:43 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2010 1:48 am
Posts: 85
Patrick, thanks for your advice.
I've been kiting for many years, with twin tips and surfborads.
I may start kite racing.
I think it's great. Is the cabrinha race a good option?
Thanks.
Tio


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 Post subject: Re: North Race Ltd 2011 vs Cabrinha Race 2011
PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 3:18 am 
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Joined: Fri Apr 30, 2010 12:50 am
Posts: 79
yes the cabrinha race is a great option if you want a board that can win races.

I will say that you need to get better fins than what the board comes with to REALLY be competitive. But if upwind angle isn't really a primary concern and you want to just blast around super fast, the stocks are good.

the tough part is that this board (like all race boards) is not easy to ride at first. Most people (even experienced riders) when they first get on a competitive raceboard get thrown over the handlebars frequently early on. Tri's are a bit easier than quads...but once your dialed in, quads will outperform.

my tip...find somebody who races and ask for tips...have them ride behind you and coach you on technique. Hang in there...and you'll be shredding in no time.

here is a video that sort of shows what I'm talking about...notice NO edging!



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 Post subject: Re: North Race Ltd 2011 vs Cabrinha Race 2011
PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 8:43 am 
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Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 2:34 pm
Posts: 1475
swell wrote:
Tone wrote:
swell wrote:
Ok, I ride the North LTD 2011. It is OK for moderate wind, but as for realy light wind you will need a board with minimum 70+ wide, 3 fin setup and 30+cm long fins. Besides of course a biger kite (min 14) and 40-50m lines. Than you can race in 2 knots of wind. No of production board can do that now, but many customs can. Racing in that wind has nothing to do with your spent time on the water, because there are no critical speeds at that wind wich would be hard to control.
With a 14 Rebel '11 and 40 lines I can race in 5 knots, when the wind drops below that, tha board does not glide anymore, so it's not going upwind at all. A fried of mine has build a board himself (180cmx70cm) and that board goes upwind in realy light wind without gliding.
So riding technique starts at 6-7 knots, below that there is more matter of right equipment.


sorry, I am pulling the BULLSHIT handle here...

4knots is just about believable.

2knots.

get the fuck out of town, that is just plain stupid talk!

there is not a single inflatable that will fly in 2 knots, they will barely fly in 4!



Yea man, i know it's hard to believe... welcome to kiteracing! :wink:


nope, not having it, that it one bullshit too far.


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 Post subject: Re: North Race Ltd 2011 vs Cabrinha Race 2011
PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 9:21 am 
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Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2005 9:49 am
Posts: 223
has any research/testing been done into mild vee sections in the front end of the board?

a flat back end is obviously best, but i'm wondering if now that boards are getting closer/plateauing in raw performance, we'll start to see improvements in rider comfort. taking the harshness out of the wave slap would appear to be a good idea on paper....


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 Post subject: Re: North Race Ltd 2011 vs Cabrinha Race 2011
PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 11:21 am 
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Posts: 3007
patrickrynne wrote:
here is a video that sort of shows what I'm talking about...notice NO edging!


It looks boring, but I'm sure its not boring for the rider. He seems to be having to twist his heel out of the way to get the pressure on the windward rail while holding the board flat?

The 2011 Underground Race has a sloping deck under the front straps to make it more comfortable to do that.


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 Post subject: Re: North Race Ltd 2011 vs Cabrinha Race 2011
PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 6:12 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2005 10:38 am
Posts: 196
If you are entering racing then a production board will be fine. Most of the performance is in the fins anyway but before you even get there you need to learn to ride these puppies.

I'm riding the Airush Monaro 60cm V.2 and have a pre-production V.3 which is 65cm. They ride completely differently V2 is still riding on the rail whereas V.3 is the new-gen ride flat type.

In our winds and chop it's a handful. Tried out the Cabrinha 53 and found it even more tricky than V3 - definately a board you need to spend time on - but then i'm sure you'll be rewarded.

The North looks ok as well - we'll see next week when all the boards should go head to head in our weekly racing series. But the North and Cabs only just arrived so the guys haven't had much time to get dialled in. And early predictions are for 35 knots of wind so should be interesting.

It's almost not worth telling you to give them a try as they are all awful first time out......you have to persevere.

If you want to go fast easily look at the Sector 52 from Airush - this board is so easy and so much fun and will still go upwind better than any non-dedicated raceboard.


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 Post subject: Re: North Race Ltd 2011 vs Cabrinha Race 2011
PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 5:42 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2010 1:48 am
Posts: 85
Thanks Patrick great advice!


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