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A Twintip that can keep up with Directionals

Forum for everyone who is into racing and speeding on kites.


BWD
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Re: A Twintip that can keep up with Directionals

Postby BWD » Fri Nov 05, 2010 9:46 pm

dagger board must really work well to get the kiter upwind
indeed, it probably does, since almost all small boats have them, and many vastly outpoint kiteboards.
The thing that matters most to windward is the angle, and a dagger takes you higher, also it's a high AR foil with (theoretically) less drag for the required lift than the super-low AR foil of the board edge.
Going downwind, the advantage would be that you get rid of all the drag of the dagger, and have only little fins for tracking....
Will it win? Dunno but looks worth trying....

tomatkins
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Re: A Twintip that can keep up with Directionals

Postby tomatkins » Sat Nov 06, 2010 2:29 am

BWD wrote:
dagger board must really work well to get the kiter upwind


it's a high AR foil with (theoretically) less drag for the required lift than the super-low AR foil of the board edge.

.


BWD,

Good analysis! high vs. low aspect foil...I bet you are right...thanks.

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AdamKoch
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Re: A Twintip that can keep up with Directionals

Postby AdamKoch » Sun Nov 14, 2010 11:39 pm

MKM wrote:Whoa there cowboy. No disrespect intended. I just wouldn't think it fair for people to run out expecting that this style of board would be competitive as your post implied. Conversely, I like the idea of this style of board and can even see room for another class of racing evolving with it.

Keep up the good work and hopefully it will continue to get better and better. I even think that the twin tip in slalom racing may be very good. You will still need good pointing performance for passing, but the turning would be far better on the twin. There's room for all types in this sport and we are just in the beginning of evolution.

Sorry for the mis-understanding. Have a good one.



Kent



I would have to agree with Kent (all but the twin tip part for slalom). I'm pretty much convinced that twintips in the race scene are a lost dream (I'm talking course racing here, not speed). Some of the fundamentals of sailing in basic form are tacking and jibing. I believe that course racing is no different. For sure it's not easy to maneuver on a race board and that is exactly how races are won and lost. I've for sure given up a race or two with failed tacks and Jibes. Thats racing and part of the reason I love it so much.

adam

Europ2
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Re: A Twintip that can keep up with Directionals

Postby Europ2 » Thu Nov 18, 2010 2:17 pm

AdamKoch wrote:I would have to agree with Kent (all but the twin tip part for slalom). I'm pretty much convinced that twintips in the race scene are a lost dream (I'm talking course racing here, not speed).
adam


Image

Maybe the idea is not to loose too much on the upwind tacks and rip the raceboards on the downwind ones.

Also, for riders who don't have race in mind, the advantages are numerous:
- TT riders will have the possibility to ride in areas upwind of the crowd so far only accessible to foilboards or raceboards,
- no wind days : gaining 8-10 degrees upwind (wereas no other TT guy can ride) means more time on the water :wink:

Now I think about 2 things:
- a foldable Twin Tip with such a dagger board :o
- retrofitting an existing TT with the necessary reinforcements :o

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AdamKoch
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Re: A Twintip that can keep up with Directionals

Postby AdamKoch » Thu Nov 18, 2010 8:47 pm

Europ2 wrote:
AdamKoch wrote:I would have to agree with Kent (all but the twin tip part for slalom). I'm pretty much convinced that twintips in the race scene are a lost dream (I'm talking course racing here, not speed).
adam


Image

Maybe the idea is not to loose too much on the upwind tacks and rip the raceboards on the downwind ones.

Also, for riders who don't have race in mind, the advantages are numerous:
- TT riders will have the possibility to ride in areas upwind of the crowd so far only accessible to foilboards or raceboards,
- no wind days : gaining 8-10 degrees upwind (wereas no other TT guy can ride) means more time on the water :wink:

Now I think about 2 things:
- a foldable Twin Tip with such a dagger board :o
- retrofitting an existing TT with the necessary reinforcements :o



By all means these are just opinions... but we will see if you kick our butts next year in a course race. I can promise all of us will join your efforts if you do repeatedly... Personally I'm still not convinced... and also keep in mind that it sounds like you are comparing racing vs. freeriding... in that sense I'll give you a thumbs up. Stay true to your dreams my friend. you may be right! I challenge you to prove us wrong.

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gmb13
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Re: A Twintip that can keep up with Directionals

Postby gmb13 » Thu Nov 18, 2010 9:06 pm

Just to clear up a few small things on the Flyrace TT.

It started out as just a concept, but it has had good results in the PKRA Races and the German tour. That is why we at Flysurfer are producing it.

As for it being competitive: It has consistent top 5 results in the Races in the PKRA Germany. Armin and Eddy Lansink where racing them the last 2 years.

I have to admit that I do not ride them in Competitions much as I am developing my own directionals (that is me on 1st place in that podium pic). However I have GPS Tested both boards side by side, and in Flat water medium winds, the Flyrace is just as fast or faster than directionals. The single Fin has a lot less drag on the upwind course and the VMG is actually marginally faster.

I think it is the perfect board for people to get into National Class racing, as it offers amazing performance for a lot less cost than a directional, plus the skill level needed to ride this board is not so high.

Adam you will be racing against these boards at the worlds next year, so it will be interesting to see how they do. I personally will probably be on my directionals unless the conditions favor the TT.

--
Gunnar

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Re: A Twintip that can keep up with Directionals

Postby d0uglass » Tue Nov 23, 2010 12:43 am

Is anyone scheming to put the Flysurfer daggerboard system on a directional quad or tri? Front fins would both be retractable and asymmetrical, the leeward one would be retracted when going upwind to eliminate drag, and both would be retracted when going downwind for more speed and control. It would be real complicated, but it might work well. I imagine a directional daggerboard could be foiled more efficiently than the bi-directional daggerboard on the Flysurfer board.

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pouch
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Re: A Twintip that can keep up with Directionals

Postby pouch » Tue Nov 23, 2010 7:42 pm

Vincent Tiger tried this concept on his board, but as far as I understood, both leeward and winward
fins help to keep directional stability of the board. keeping both front fins in the water are important

Image

Image


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