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 Post subject: Re: KS #10 - When Extreme Ability Isn't Enough
PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 10:57 pm 
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RickI wrote:
An illustration of wind shadow or rotor and surface features. It doesn't take much land relief to seriously disturb the wind and put kiters at risk. The higher and/or closer the surface feature, potentially the more severe the wind shadow or mechanical turbulence resulting in excessive lulls and gusts.

All those multicolored squiggles represent undulating air flow which equate to serious changes and directions in wind speed. Don't let the squiggles get you, they can hurt!

MORE about wind shadow and land features to be avoided at...
.

This is the sort of fundamental information which is coming here by accident just because Rickl felt like sharing it today :thumb: .
It shouldn't be fortuitous; every rider should have been taught that, and more, from the very onset.
The majority of fatal accidents are caused by ignorance or disrespect of elementary aerology and meteorology, and IKO shares a huge responsibility for the tragic statistics for failing to provide instructions of matters which are taught before anything else in all sports depending on the air and its dynamics (most sailing and all flying sports).
IKO claims it's in their syllabus, but the fact is that, at least in my region, I haven't seen any IKO branded instructor teaching these topics. How could they, not having been themselves taught that?
IKO satisfy themselves by selling their stickers to schools to fool the punter. For new schools, it's a quick substitute for experience. They (IKO) never follow up nor bother to check if the teaching given corresponds to their programme, if there was any.
Considering IKO is dysfunctional beyond redemption, has anyone an idea about how to make up for it and disseminate meteorological and aerological subjects in all the schools? There is a safety thread in kiteforum, and if it were there, it would be a good start, but that would not be enough, as beginners usually get aware of forums' existence only after they have learnt.
Cheers
Alex

PS: all good links on meteorology and aerology welcome here for a digest :coffee:.


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 Post subject: Re: KS #10 - When Extreme Ability Isn't Enough
PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 2:30 am 
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Rick,
Please keep up the effort. I see friends and newbies frequently doing things that could get them in trouble. And I certainly have made errors in judgement and gotten caught up in the moment.

We have a launch that is full onshore and requires climbing over a rock erosion prevention wall. One slip and you could easily find yourself piling into the rocks or the trees behind them. Seems like a good place for a helmet. Stunting 100 feet upwind from the rocks. I speak to people about the risks. I share the time that a helmet probably saved my life. 6 hours on a backboard. Broke stuff. Some permanent damage, but I was very lucky. Most politely listen. Some have even been appreciative. Some not so much.

I suppose I pay more attention to your messages since I got thrashed. It is pretty silly that it takes a personal experience for some of us to get it. Unfortunately, some don't get a second or third chance at it.

I guess you could bow to the chldish comments, and give up trying to make people aware of the risks, but for selfish reasons, I hope you don't. It would put a big dent in my enthusiasm for kiting to be a witness to a tragedy such as you described. Don't want that to happen. Could also blow the launch site. Don't want that to happen. Also would struggle with the knowledge of not having said something and the tragedy occurs.

Every once in awhile somebody listens. Personal choice


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 Post subject: Re: KS #10 - When Extreme Ability Isn't Enough
PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 2:37 am 
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kjelleren wrote:
Rick,
Please keep up the effort. I see friends and newbies frequently doing things that could get them in trouble.


I agree. You always have good advice, to avoid danger in a dangerous sport


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 Post subject: Re: KS #10 - When Extreme Ability Isn't Enough
PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 4:11 am 
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Rick,
Good job!


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 Post subject: Re: KS #10 - When Extreme Ability Isn't Enough
PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 11:27 am 
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Hey guys just my 2c.....

I am an IKO instructor, and i have been kiting for 5 years in many different wind conditions from 10 to 45kts and i would consider myself well experienced.
I am lucky that where i teach we have very safe conditions for learning. flatwater lagoon, 10 to 15 kts side shore with a soft beach 2kms downwind.

I think you have very valid point by mentioning this, as i see risks taken all the time. The IKO DO have this information in the syllabus, and we teach what we can. After the IKO its all up to the instructor to teach what they should teach. I beleive i teach well, and i try to make all of my students understand the potential dangers involved. Human response is to gain confidence through time and practice, as confidence rises potential for risk rises also. We should all try and take note to remind ourselves of this risk, as we all need to check ourselves from time to time.

One thing on this forum that i will never understand is the petty arguments people can introduce into a topic, such as Cabrinha haters. Why so much hate? why is it in a safety topic when its not about the subject of cabrinha safety? crazy times.... you need to chill and enjoy kiting again for the simple pleasure. I teach with Cabrinha, i ride them, but my kites are not cabrinha. My kites are ozone and i will probably change for another ozone. But i dont hate other kites........


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 Post subject: Re: KS #10 - When Extreme Ability Isn't Enough
PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 3:14 pm 
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Thanks for the positive input folks, I appreciate it. Alexrider, weather and site selection problems (including wind shadow/rotor zones) factor in all too many accidents including fatalities. Better broad awareness and understanding of what to look for, what to avoid and how in the community would be a good thing. It would be great if all instructors gave this topic the treatment it deserves. There is more to kiting instruction than getting up on the board and yet this seems to be the primary focus. IKO does have some environmental/weather information in their student literature. I have no idea what is in the instructor information even though I have tried to find out. I believe it could be expanded across the industry and all instructors in general, not to single out IKO. Lots of room for reform out there.

I am sorry you went through the injury and all that has followed kjelleren. I can relate on many levels. Some people will think about what you tell them about and others won't. It is good you try and I encourage you to continue.

You are right about risk and perception barneskite28. We all deal with this to varying degrees. I would like to add the rider in this hypothetical story could be considered one of the top 100 riders or better in the USA. That might make him equal or stronger than the most skillful riders at your local launch. We all screw up at times and/or are surprised by what may pop up. If we keep that fact in sight and plan accordingly, we should be OK. Loose sight of it and we might set ourselves up, it is easy to do.

* There are quite a few weather references in the top portion of the page at: http://www.kiteforum.com/viewforum.php?f=131


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 Post subject: Re: KS #10 - When Extreme Ability Isn't Enough
PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 5:02 pm 
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RickI wrote:
Thanks for the positive input folks, I appreciate it. Alexrider, weather and site selection problems (including wind shadow/rotor zones) factor in all too many accidents including fatalities...
It would be great if all instructors gave this topic the treatment it deserves. There is more to kiting instruction than getting up on the board and yet this seems to be the primary focus.

* There are quite a few weather references in the top portion of the page at: http://www.kiteforum.com/viewforum.php?f=131

:thumb: :thumb: :thumb:

I was unaware of your great column. Lots of interesting and relevant posts.
Cheers
Alex

PS: I'll give my modest 2 cents on wind shadow rotor/zones in a short while. The issue is just to often overlooked.


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 Post subject: Re: KS #10 - When Extreme Ability Isn't Enough
PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 6:09 pm 
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safety nerds

if you can't recognize a dangerous situation your in the wrong sport


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 Post subject: Re: KS #10 - When Extreme Ability Isn't Enough
PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 7:55 pm 
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Did you read the scenario? That is the point! It was obvious the guy was in a dangerous situation, it often is, we just don't always take it seriously enough. The account goes on about this at length.

You say you've been kiting for only two years and so are pretty new to things. Stay with me, this guy had been kiting for ten years at an aggressive and extreme level. Extreme equates to in a dangerous fashion. He knew he was in dangerous situations and perhaps like other similar kiters I've known, may have become indifferent to the hazards or otherwise played them down.

That is the trap that eventually caused him serious harm for the first time in a long kiting career. Most of us don't get away with things like that as long. He was special with fast reactions and strong skill but not immune, poor practices messed him up eventually.

This story is intended as a reality check for other well experienced kiters to consider, new riders like you too for that matter. This scenario is make believe but the underlying events have been repeated way too many times.

Thanks Alex, looking forward to reading your take. Turbulence has been a factor in a lot of accidents worldwide. There are still more references HERE and some magazine articles HERE.


Last edited by RickI on Thu Dec 09, 2010 8:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: KS #10 - When Extreme Ability Isn't Enough
PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 8:01 pm 
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dude, you made the story up

how is it a reality check if its not real


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