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 Post subject: Re: KS #10 - When Extreme Ability Isn't Enough
PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:01 am 
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barneskite28 wrote:
Hey guys just my 2c.....
.... The IKO DO have this information in the syllabus, and we teach what we can. After the IKO its all up to the instructor to teach what they should teach.........

No good if it's in the syllabus and no one cares.
IKO certainly doesn't check if the instructor is instructed, or if he unlikely has been, is transmitting his knowledge to where it is supposed to end up.


Everybody, Somebody, Anybody, And Nobody at IKO headquarters.

This is a little story about four people named Everybody, Somebody, Anybody, and Nobody.
There was an important job to be done and Everybody was sure that Somebody would do it.
Anybody could have done it, but Nobody did it.
Somebody got angry about that because it was Everybody's job.
Everybody thought that Anybody could do it, but Nobody realized that Everybody wouldn't do it.
It ended up that Everybody blamed Somebody when Nobody did what Anybody could have done.


Last edited by alexrider on Fri Dec 10, 2010 3:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: KS #10 - When Extreme Ability Isn't Enough
PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 2:01 am 
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That story is seriously the best definition of every problem in this sport I have ever heard.

I had stuff to add to this thread, but I think alexrider summed it up!

Holy shit that was good. :clap: :claps: :clap:


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 Post subject: Re: KS #10 - When Extreme Ability Isn't Enough
PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 3:11 am 
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I prepared a powerpoint presentation on weather planning and monitoring for a college level kite course once. If you can readily connect the dots it isn't a bad aid as is. Still, for non-native speakers, people that don't want to look that deeply into it, or for folks this is really new for, some things might be lost. It has an emphasis on the SE USA and Caribbean but you have to start somewhere. I am thinking of coming up with something similar only narrated in video form. It might take a few videos to diminish the file size, still should be doable. Also, the weather emphasis could be generalized to cover a broader geographic area. It may still take some time before formal instruction takes this on uniformly, nothing new there. Still, it would be a ready, canned and viewable reference for kiters and prospective kiters at large. What do you think Alex?

Toby "flattened out" the ppt file into a web page at: http://www.kiteforum.com/wiki/index.php?title=Squalls_in_Florida for easier viewing outside Powerpoint.


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 Post subject: Re: KS #10 - When Extreme Ability Isn't Enough
PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 3:22 am 
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KiteboardingTampaBay wrote:
That story is seriously the best definition of every problem in this sport I have ever heard.
.....

It's universally valid, I am afraid.
IKO is not alone.


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 Post subject: Re: KS #10 - When Extreme Ability Isn't Enough
PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 3:40 am 
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So, how about this thing with hazard perception, some guys have guessed badly wrong over time and have be severely hurt, sometimes killed. Awareness building should help, you would think, what else is there at this point when you get down to it?

Here are some example accidents:

1. This fellow headed out into a squall when most others were coming in to avoid the hazard. He thought he could handle it but was wrong. He isn't alone, not by a long shot. How to get it across to folks this weather can easily kill or leave you severely messed up?
http://www.kiteforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2366337

2. Here's another one, rigged big, coming in too slow in a squall, he was badly lofted and apparently made no effective steps to Emergency Depower in advance. He had ten years experience reportedly. Lots have rigged too big, come in too late and failed to react early enough to kill the kites power.
http://www.kiteforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2366072&start=10

3. This rider knew the squall was coming, had a large kite up, didn't take steps to do anything prior to being gusted by the squall and covered 1200 ft. amazingly enough. He had been riding for some years too.
http://www.kiteforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=131&t=2358331

4. This was touted to be a severe storm, the news was likely buzzing with it. There was major damage ashore from the storm as predicted. This rider went out into it, a cloud from hell moved in, he stayed out until he was lofted over 100 m into a wall.
http://www.kiteforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2363087

This could go on for many more pages but I'll stop here. We don't perceive hazards for what they are and/or we don't take them seriously enough in too many instances. In some cases we seem to not know how to react to them either. None of this is rocket science, it is usually quite straight forward. How to get it across effectively? Proper balanced professional instruction is an obvious solution for future kiters if not an elusive one for now. What about all the kiters at large and the percentage destined to have their own avoidable accidents? Doing little to nothing is one response, a time honored one ironically. Someone prominent in the industry once told me, eight years ago, don't promote safety, let kiters mess themselves up, they'll learn. He even tossed out a couple of threats to stop promoting safety or else. What the hell? Time suggests his solution hasn't worked all that well, something else is in order. Beyond that we all have a stake in this aside from basic regard for fellow kiters, restrictions and bans have followed severe accidents more than once too.


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 Post subject: Re: KS #10 - When Extreme Ability Isn't Enough
PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 10:13 am 
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Well done Rickl, with this sport growing so fast it is invaluable for new and old participants to get this sort of heads-up, either for the first time or the umpteenth reminder.

I'm sure that when guys like JerseyPride (can he really be 24??) grow up they will also appreciate your efforts.

Keep it up.


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 Post subject: Re: KS #10 - When Extreme Ability Isn't Enough
PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 8:14 pm 
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alexrider wrote:
If you are so gifted to recognise such situations without learning, how about the lay people?


ok ok...coming from my background, reading the weather and wind is second nature. you safety nerds can enlighten all you want

alexrider wrote:
I don't mind guys removing themselves from the gene pool on a parking lot out of their own stupidity. I do mind however people who chose to teach, know very little, and as a result make their students believe they are safe.


even as a student though, if you dont respect the power of nature, youre going to learn one way or another.. and i dont know if a fictional story will get the point across.

alexrider wrote:
Kiting since 2008? Full time ? And proud of that. Wow!

I'm not too sure what youre trying to get at with this one....the length of my experience kiting was brought up by rick. Regardless, kiting hasn't really been around that long anyway, and i've been kiting longer than 90% of the people around here...


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 Post subject: Re: KS #10 - When Extreme Ability Isn't Enough
PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 8:59 pm 
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JerseyPride wrote:
alexrider wrote:
If you are so gifted to recognise such situations without learning, how about the lay people?

ok ok...coming from my background, reading the weather and wind is second nature. you safety nerds can enlighten all you want

alexrider wrote:
I don't mind guys removing themselves from the gene pool on a parking lot out of their own stupidity. I do mind however people who chose to teach, know very little, and as a result make their students believe they are safe.

even as a student though, if you dont respect the power of nature, youre going to learn one way or another.. and i dont know if a fictional story will get the point across.
...

Aerology and Meteorology are way beyond mere safety issues. The knowledge of wind is core to the sport, and you object to its teaching it on the grounds it's safety's nerds stuff?

Did you learn by yourself or through a school?
If so and if weather was not "second nature" to you (it's definitely not everybody's second nature, statistics prove it), would you have appreciated that those who taught you would also tell you what the wind is all about? In order to respect nature, it is not necessary to get acquainted with its power the hard way.

This discussion is flying very low now, and I shouldn't argue any longer with someone who takes pride in having the last word supporting the silliest of stands.

Quote of the day:
"Do not argue with an idiot :dumbo:. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience."


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 Post subject: Re: KS #10 - When Extreme Ability Isn't Enough
PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 9:23 pm 
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holy shit guy

if you want to kiteboard you need to know about wind. thats a given. when did i object to education? the discussion went low when you started misinterpreting my words and getting defensive about being a safety nerd.

i object to making up fiction novels about horror stories. when you start making things up to prove a point, then it becomes safety nerd status. when you wear a helmet and lifejacket, then you are a safety nerd. if you didn't know that, i am educating you now.

and yes, a real encounter will always result in a more solidifying learning experience than reading a fairy tale. there is no debating about that. a real story will do better than a fake one also.


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 Post subject: Re: KS #10 - When Extreme Ability Isn't Enough
PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 9:28 pm 
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Younger wrote:
I'm sure that when guys like JerseyPride (can he really be 24??) grow up they will also appreciate your efforts.



thank you thank you for wasting my time spent reading a made up story



not to say that it shouldn't be common knowledge identifying dangerous situations, but do we need made up stories to convey these ideas? wheres the magic unicorns??

at the beginning of this master piece there should be a line starting "once upon a time..."


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