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 Post subject: Re: Another serious head injury accident last week
PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 1:20 am 
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Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2005 12:49 am
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Location: scott klandl burlington, VT
plummet wrote:
Yes the common theme to these injury threads is this.

The kiter lost control in a gust/squall and had recieved a serious head injury that could have been minimised by wearing a helmet.


...and how many kiters have responded to this thread with:

"I guess its time for me to go out and get a helmet"

INSTEAD OF:

"I GUESS ITS TIME FOR ME TO EVALUATE MY LAUNCH AND LEARN ABOUT LOCAL WEATHER"

WTF? maybe someone should invent a piece of GEAR that tells you when its OK to go kiteboarding or not, think that would work?


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 Post subject: Re: Another serious head injury accident last week
PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 1:28 am 
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Location: scott klandl burlington, VT
Actually I just counted

7 people after reading this story are going out to buy helmets

0 people are going to rethink their launch or learn about local weather



WTF


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 Post subject: Re: Another serious head injury accident last week
PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 1:49 am 
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Joined: Tue Feb 11, 2003 2:37 pm
Posts: 527
Location: Vermont, USA
Scott,
relax a little bit. I agree about the launch and the weather. Helmet is like a seatbelt, it doesn't stop the accident- it just may moderate the outcome of a screw up. You and I launch over rocks and during some pretty poor gusty weather. We both have years of experience. I only had 7 years of kiting and 40 years of broad water experience when bad luck cost me.

Fundamental to accident investigation is that hubans make mistakes. At some point the worn line, the 30 kt gust, beginner crowding you into the corner, rocks downwind, and etc. stack up to make one minor issue go bad in a serious way. Safety professionals like to call the small, but often unlikely cause, a triggering event. Its the fact that the stage is set,with many latent issues, that turns the event from minor to a disaster- or maybe not. I certainly don't think of you as a "kook" (hate the word, cause it reminds me of the fashion police), but you have got to admit that either of us could end up on the rocks with only a couple of unfortunate circumstances lining up.

You know how I feel about helmets- I don't kite without one, but nor do I snowboard, kiteboard, mountain bike or any other aggressive sport. Basically, I have proven to myself that I am not completely in control and that bad stuff is likely to happen if we play hard enough.

Hope to see you at Sandbar Southside on the ice, this weekend.


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 Post subject: Re: Another serious head injury accident last week
PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 3:01 am 
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Location: scott klandl burlington, VT
Com'on Gary, neither of us would be at Sandbar launching in that weather, we know better. Yes, Sandbar is a bad launch but our weather systems are very stable compared to many areas, wind speed variations of 10mph is the worst of it. Ive never been on the lake when it went from 15-35. never. Not once in 600+ sessions.

a. It doesnt happen like that often here
b. I have a good estimate of when the system will turn from looking at the radar and watch the sky and the water and get off well before it hits
c. I dont launch when see the sky exploding

So I feel entirely justified in trying to compel people to examine and study their local weather patterns and habits as the PRIMARY measure to insure safety.

I think the responses tell the tale:
"Ill buy a helmet, because I might be out in weather like that one day"
well the moral of this story is
"dont be out in that weather"


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 Post subject: Re: Another serious head injury accident last week
PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 3:03 am 
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Location: Thailand
scklandl wrote:
Actually I just counted

7 people after reading this story are going out to buy helmets
0 people are going to rethink their launch or learn about local weather


WTF

:thumb:
That shows people got their priorities wrong.
And who do you think is responsible for that screwed mindset?


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 Post subject: Re: Another serious head injury accident last week
PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 3:11 am 
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kjelleren wrote:
....
... I have proven to myself that I am not completely in control....

Who can claim to be?
Being aware of that is the right attitude to act in order to minimize mishaps.


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 Post subject: Re: Another serious head injury accident last week
PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 3:28 am 
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Location: The Naki
Hope your not counting me as a dude rushing out and buying a helmet! i use one religiously not mater what extreme activity I do.

I take that 7 dudes are buying helmets as a good thing. Sure you need to be aware of the conditions but still a helmet can save you if it does go pear shaped.

Getting mad at the helmet wearers is silly.


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 Post subject: Re: Another serious head injury accident last week
PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 5:50 pm 
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Location: Florida
Kiting is a package deal in my opinion and after examining hundreds of accidents including some nice ones of my own over 10 years. We should use good training/procedures, strong weather awareness and reasonable safety gear appropriate for kiting. Reasonable common sense helps you through all of this.

There have been a number of fairly low wind speed and likely speed of collision fatalities in kiting. Who knows how many avoidable but survived injury accidents as well? Guys have been killed on impact in 11 to 17 kt. winds. At the same time, riders have apparently survived impacts at higher speeds both with and without helmets/impact vests. It all comes down to how you hit and what for that matter, things we rarely know in advance.

Some low velocity accidents:
http://www.kiteforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=131&t=2316233
http://www.kiteforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=131&t=2316234&p=224512#p224512


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 Post subject: Re: Another serious head injury accident last week
PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 8:50 pm 
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RickI wrote:
Kiting is a package deal in my opinion and after examining hundreds of accidents including some nice ones of my own over 10 years. We should use good training/procedures, strong weather awareness and reasonable safety gear appropriate for kiting. Reasonable common sense helps you through all of this.

There have been a number of fairly low wind speed and likely speed of collision fatalities in kiting. Who knows how many avoidable but survived injury accidents as well? Guys have been killed on impact in 11 to 17 kt. winds. At the same time, riders have apparently survived impacts at higher speeds both with and without helmets/impact vests. It all comes down to how you hit and what for that matter, things we rarely know in advance.

Some low velocity accidents:
http://www.kiteforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=131&t=2316233
http://www.kiteforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=131&t=2316234&p=224512#p224512


Do you have an approx. count of fatalities since e.g. 2005?


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 Post subject: Re: Another serious head injury accident last week
PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 9:20 pm 
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Location: Florida
We are up to about 127 fatalities worldwide since 2000 that I have heard about. I used to hear about most losses on here or via email. This isn't always the case anymore. I have been finding some losses through searches on google.com using the translator functions.

We have lost 12 this year so far. God willing there will be no more this year. This is half the number of kiters lost in 2009, 24. Many have been lost in squalls, particularly in 2009. There were 13 in 2008 and 18 in 2007, again that I have learned about. Given increases in kiter population it might be argued that the fatality rate is actually decreasing by some kiter quantity estimates. Statistics can be a comfort as long as you aren't part of the injured or lost group. The three A's (accident awareness, appreciation and avoidance) should help you have some fun sessions and decrease the odds of a stop at the ER. It is worth noting that for each fatality, there are likely more, perhaps many more (50 to 100+ per fatality worldwide?), non-lethal serious injury accidents brought on by similar causes. What works to avoid getting killed may serve you well in preserving your kite to avoiding paralysis/serious TBI and degrees of loss between.

FKA, Inc.

transcribed by:
Rick Iossi


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