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 Post subject: F-one Bandit 4 2011 Problems with safety and relaunch
PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 2:44 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2011 1:41 pm
Posts: 2
Hi All

I'm new to the forum . I've been riding about 3 years , solid riding , jumping etc and just purchased my first quiver of kites : 2011 F-one bandit 4's - 10m and 14m.
I use them with the 2010 f-one bar and an f-one tx 4 board.

I'm lucky enough to have just come back from 5 weeks in the carribbean where i was kiting everyday with these kites but I have a problem I need your help with! I really like the kites - I found the boost , power on these kites is amazing but the relaunch in light winds and safety seems very poor - compared to the other kites I have flown a lot - RRD Obsession and Cabrinha Switchblade.

Either i'm doing something wrong or something is wrong with the kit ...I dont know, hence the post. Should say at this point as well I have no issues with f-one whatsoever ...i just want my kites to work as I think they should!

The issues..

Safety System.
When you pull the quick release velcro on the chicken loop the bar moves away from you and goes to the yellow stopper ball as I expect...only problem is the kite doesnt depower! it stays with all its C shape and sat on its inflated edge. moves directly downwind of you and then pulls you by the leash downwind. In five weeks I never got it to sit on its back or flag to the point that it stopped pulling me downwind. One day I got pulled half a mile before i could get in. If I pull on the bar it tends to kiteloop and crash sometimes - also a self rescue where I swim to the kite wrapping my lines as I go ...seems like a recipe for having a totally out of control kite on a half wrapped bar!. Got to the point now I just do not trust the safety, and when I eventually steer it into the beach....I'm quiet nervous the thing is going to start taking off kitelooping and crashing.

Relaunching in light wind.
The bandit has a reputation for being really easy to relaunch, but no matter what I do in light wind it does not want to launch. To give an example of what I mean...my friend is out on his cabrinha switchblade ..so are many others including me all relaunching fine . I drop the kite ....try to steer to edge of wind window to relaunch ...wont budge off its inflated edge no matter how much i pull. Same hour I take out my mates Cabrinha just to prove Im not being a muppet .....relaunch three times no issue whatsoever. Two instructors try the same thing ...get the same results. Because of this while everyone was having a merry old time upwind ...i was floating downwind and needing rescue or taking a long walk when I eventually got in...quite frustrating :-?

Can anyone help ? If you have experience of teh B4 i would really like to hear from you.
I know there was another post about problems with the bandit 4 and I wondered if anyone has any hints or tips to get this sorted.

I did wonder whether the fact I'm using a 2010 bar and a 2011 kite there is a problem with compatability because the kites are so differant in shape? Reason I got the 2010 bar was because the airlite 2011 wasnt ready....are they very differant setups or just cosmetic changes?

Maybe there is a specific technique I should be using for relaunch? Tried pulling in the middle line about a metre then trying to relaunch....really didnt help that much.

all ideas / advice gratefully received. It could be my lack of knowledge , a kit problem ..I dont know but I'm open to suggestions

cheers

Patrick


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 Post subject: Re: F-ONE Bandit 4 2011 Problems with safety and relaunch
PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 3:44 pm 
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Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2006 4:24 pm
Posts: 79
Location: Northern California, USA
Hi Patrick.

I rode the Bandit 3 kites and am now on the Bandit 4 kites. Both kites work great. I do have the new 2011 Airlite Bar and the Bandit 4 definitely flies better on it, than with the B3 bar, also the new bar has nice improvements (one piece aluminum, better feel, and easier to grab quick release and depower) over the 2010 bar. The B4 kite and the Airlite bar are perfectly tuned out of the bag. No need for adjustments.

As far as depowering, check your 2010 F-One bar and look at the end of the lines (towards the kite) and read the little white tags. It should say what size kite the bar is made for on at least one of the white tags.

The little yellow stopper ball is positioned differently for each kite size (more depower-further away from bar for larger kites). It is positioned this way so that the kite depowers sufficiently, but doesn't allow the bar out too far so that the kite is too flat making it harder to relaunch and also the keeps the bar from going out too far so you don't have to retrieve it from so far away.

Since the yellow stopper ball positioning is kite size dependent, make sure that for your 10 and 14m kite, that the bar is at least for the 14m kite size (for 2010 bar, they had 13m and 15m kites, so you should have at least this size bar). If you bar instead has a smaller number like for 7m or 9m kite, then the yellow ball positioning will be not far enough away to allow the kite to depower fully. If you don't want to get a new bar, then you can move this yellow ball out further by sliding it away from the bar and loosening the knot underneath it and moving the knot also further away from bar.

As far as relaunch goes, it can be difficult in very light wind, especially if the wind at the water level is lighter than the wind higher up where your kite is when you are riding. In normal wind the kites relaunch effortlessly by either just waiting for the kite to work its way to the edge of the window and then pulling in the top steering line or helping it by pulling in the top steering line. In lighter winds, it takes a little finessing. Here is a video link that may help: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGcYINox ... re=related
Also check your depower strap setting when trying to relaunch sometimes the powering of the kite can affect relaunch.

Hope this helps.

John


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 Post subject: Re: F-one Bandit 4 2011 Problems with safety and relaunch
PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 4:30 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2010 8:40 pm
Posts: 198
I do not know if you have a problem with your kite unless I saw it, but I might make a suggestion that has made a big difference in lightwind relaunch for me. If you try to launch and you cant get it off the water no matter what you do, try grabbing one of the rear lines and the opposite front line, pull both till kite goes up. I have had this work very successfully in super light winds.


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 Post subject: Re: F-one Bandit 4 2011 Problems with safety and relaunch
PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 5:59 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 5:00 pm
Posts: 125
Location: Austin,TX USA
I've used shawn's method as well with my Waroos in light winds. The kite ends up rolling onto its side earlier. You just have to hold onto the lines properly until the kite reaches the edge of the window to keep the kite from falling over on its trailing edge. Be cautious not to get the lines wrapped around your fingers.


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 Post subject: Re: F-one Bandit 4 2011 Problems with safety and relaunch
PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 6:23 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2007 5:01 pm
Posts: 327
Not a Bandit rider just an observer. What you describe with the safàety has been seen with B2s and early Evos too (maybe the current one too I do not ride them anymore), Zeekos, etc. One option is to pull on that front line like mad and grab one of the front past the Y, then it should be dead but you will be swimming in your lines.

Relauch: use the swim towards the kite technique, the Bandit does not relaunch easily in light stuff (seen with my naked eye). You can also try to pull on your leash and see if it will fall on its back for a 5-line like relaunch. The last option is to get a 5 line bar with a 5th only for relaunch, with some luck it can give you good safety too but this needs to be checked. I have seen guys with big B3s having a terrible time relaunching them.

The top rear and opposite bottom line technique won't work because of the front lines do not come close enough. there is a high Y. Ozone does that wunderfully, North almost perfect bar lacks there since they also use a Y up the lines.


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 Post subject: Re: F-one Bandit 4 2011 Problems with safety and relaunch
PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 7:51 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 01, 2007 1:11 pm
Posts: 514
shawntkeating wrote:
I do not know if you have a problem with your kite unless I saw it, but I might make a suggestion that has made a big difference in lightwind relaunch for me. If you try to launch and you cant get it off the water no matter what you do, try grabbing one of the rear lines and the opposite front line, pull both till kite goes up. I have had this work very successfully in super light winds.


Thats right this method works perfectly but its a pain in the ass when the kite going to lie on its back.Then you have to pull a lot one of the back line so the kite goes to the wind window.BEWARE :shake: not to get tangled with the line on your arms.To be honest that was one of the reasons that i went to Screamers :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: F-one Bandit 4 2011 Problems with safety and relaunch
PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 10:46 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2008 7:20 am
Posts: 179
hi, I have just sold my 2011 bandit 4- 14mtr.
not due to your experiences, rather I have found the upside of flying large foils.

the 14 mtr bandit 4 is a pig at first to relaunch in light winds, then I got the hang of it, pull a lot of the top line in, lots of it, and hold in in, be patient, the kite will swing on to its edge and move round to the flying position and then take off , only when the kite is 25-25 ft up do you let the line go and grab the bar for control

as for the bar, open the big plastic container you have in your back yard and place the bar in gently, say a few parting words, ie; "rot in hell you useless bit of junk", before quietly shutting the lid.

then buy a new bar that flags out on to one line. result!!


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 Post subject: Re: F-one Bandit 4 2011 Problems with safety and relaunch
PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 2:13 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2006 2:10 pm
Posts: 428
kiteingcolin1 wrote:
as for the bar, open the big plastic container you have in your back yard and place the bar in gently, say a few parting words, ie; "rot in hell you useless bit of junk", before quietly shutting the lid.



:rollgrin: :rollgrin: Do not have any experiences with the F-one bar but you sure have a funny way of putting it out there. :thumb:


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 Post subject: Re: F-one Bandit 4 2011 Problems with safety and relaunch
PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 2:41 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2009 10:26 am
Posts: 251
Location: Ukraine, Skadovsk
kiteingcolin1 wrote:
as for the bar, open the big plastic container you have in your back yard and place the bar in gently, say a few parting words, ie; "rot in hell you useless bit of junk", before quietly shutting the lid.



:rollgrin: :rollgrin: :rollgrin:


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 Post subject: Re: F-one Bandit 4 2011 Problems with safety and relaunch
PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 2:37 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2011 1:41 pm
Posts: 2
Hi All,

Thanks very much for all the responses, I really appreciate it. Really useful responses guys.

J-GAR I'm going to get the airlite bar from the supplier so hopefully that will help and I'll make sure its for a 14m and set up with the yelow stopper ball correctly.

Shawn and Sleepy thanks for the advice, I 'll definatly try that and report back...its been raining with no wind for the last week...and I ve been suffering from the man flu ...deadly.!

KitingColin...I have to say I'm not that impressed with the bar either,like you said not having the ability to flag on one line I think is a serious omission...I notice ALL the shots of their riders on the FONE website feature a bar that has them! bizarre.

I didnt relise they are not that good in light wind relaunching, which probably would have had an impact on purchasing them.....relaunch for me is quiet important.! :) I will se how I get on ...

by the way guys what your general opinion on alternatives to the FONE bandit ? I'm looking for really good quality stuff with a proper bar , with well engineered safaty releases, kites that relaunch and flag properly and with similiar characteristics - power / boost etc to the Bandit ?

Patrick


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