*


All times are UTC + 1 hour



Post new topic Reply to topic
 [ 20 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Accident in race Wissa 2011 Finland
PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 5:22 pm 
Offline
Rare Poster

Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2006 1:08 pm
Posts: 10
Location: belgium - antwerp
naishdude wrote:
simple , one had to move his kite up the other move the kite down, both did not, both to blame, but still, how can you run in a race with a cam...


The kiter with the yellow kite has his focus on the kite and cannot see kiters coming from the back. Ever been in a race? If u were, this situations are familiar for u. And u know how to avoid them. :wink:

Btw, GoPro helmet cam.
Image


Top
Profile
 Post subject: Re: Accident in race Wissa 2011 Finland
PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 5:01 am 
Offline
Rare Poster

Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2011 6:07 am
Posts: 13
The fault is to the guy with the cam. It a 2 buoy race, riders come from every where on the buoy. Evevy body have to respect their priority. When you go more upwind, you have the priority, and you have to keep your direction and move your kite to allow the other to cross you, in this case, the Yellow kite should put kite down if the other rider pass at his back.. but By stopping in front of him, and putting his kite up, noting he can do. Dont forget, 19m kites dont turn as fast, and they are pulling a lot.

sorry i'm french.. not very good in your langage!


Top
Profile
 Post subject: Re: Accident in race Wissa 2011 Finland
PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 9:53 am 
Offline
Medium Poster
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2009 4:49 pm
Posts: 85
Location: Ireland
If the same rules apply as to sailing, then each should pass to the starboard (right side) of the other. Therefore the guy with the cam should have altered his course to pass the yellow kite to the right.
This changes slightly when approaching a buoy where vessels have to give each other 'water' or space to get around the buoy.


Top
Profile
 Post subject: Re: Accident in race Wissa 2011 Finland
PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 4:08 pm 
Offline
Medium Poster

Joined: Thu Dec 25, 2008 6:21 pm
Posts: 98
Great video, looks like a meeting of experience vs inexperience.
The angles they comming at each other and the exitement of racing its not surprizing they did not see it coming.
At 27 sec. camera guy notices and starts pulling his kite at 28 he's in full stop slide
At 28 yellow kiter notices goes skis wide and maybe starts dropping kite
At 30 sec yellow kiter brings his skis together like he's going to ski around camera guy like he would if he was down hill sking , oops this is not down hill sking.


Top
Profile
 Post subject: Re: Accident in race Wissa 2011 Finland
PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 10:30 pm 
Offline
Medium Poster

Joined: Tue Jul 01, 2003 5:24 am
Posts: 56
Location: Eastern Canada
I'd say "inexperienced vs focused".

In this competition, the rules used were Appendix BB (Experimental Kiteboarding Competition Rules) version January 2011, with some minor modifications for snowkiting. Therefore priority rules are the same as for sailing.

The russian guy that got his lines cut did not protest nor asked for a redress like he should have. The guy with the camera told me that he just did not see the guy. The other one did not see him either.

One of the problem was the course for that day was an 8. Inappropriate for kite races. The course was set up for sleds and wings and seems to suit them. But the regatta director, who is not a kiter, did not want to change it despite some warnings he received from 2-3 riders (including me).

Norm


Top
Profile
 Post subject: Re: Accident in race Wissa 2011 Finland
PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 11:28 pm 
Offline
Very Frequent Poster
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2007 7:24 pm
Posts: 576
Location: Utah ish
Kite Rider wrote:
I'd say "inexperienced vs focused"

One of the problem was the course for that day was an 8. Inappropriate for kite races. The course was set up for sleds and wings and seems to suit them. But the regatta director, who is not a kiter, did not want to change it despite some warnings he received from 2-3 riders (including me).

Norm


SO it was the Directors poor course to blame. I wondered how it placed riders in such a sitiuation.

Thanks.


Top
Profile
 Post subject: Re: Accident in race Wissa 2011 Finland
PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 12:36 pm 
Offline
Medium Poster

Joined: Tue Jul 01, 2003 5:24 am
Posts: 56
Location: Eastern Canada
It's inexperience. Thinking that whatever applies in one class will necessarily apply as-is in another class. In the kite class, with the speed we have and the "airspace" used, a figure 8 course creates a natural collision path between those going upwind and those going downwind. I think the windward mark was about 400 to 500m from the starting line. This is way too short for a so-called world championship.

The course was not the only thing. The day we used the figure 8 course, there was also an offset mark about 10m from the windward mark. Unfortunately, during that day, the wind shifted quite a bit but the course, and more importantly the starting line, were not. In the end, the offset mark at the windward mark ended up being almost leeward of the mark. At that mark, many racers tried to go directly to the offset mark. Result: many collapsed, kites on the ground (that is called "capsized"), creating a mess of obstacles.

Another anomaly: since the course was so short, we had to do 4 laps. Most riders did 5, if not 6, laps in the first race. During a race, believe me, it gets confusing to count the laps above 3.

While in the subject of anomaly, the racing instructions were issued the morning of the first race and this in inself created a bit of a problem. One of the most important paragraph in the racing instructions was stating that the regatta was held under the racing rule of sailing, Appendix BB (Experimental Kiteboarding Competition Rules). It gave little or no time for the racers to read those rules. It looked like that for many, these rules were used for the first time. The Russians obviously had no idea of rule 21.2 about running starts (During the last minute before her starting signal, a kiteboard that significantly slows down or stops, or one that is not making material forward progress, shall keep clear of all others unless she is accidentally capsized) nor rule 41.1(c) about outside help (A kiteboard shall not receive help from any outside source, except help in the form of information freely available to all kiteboards). Before the start of races in the first day, they all had their kites on the ground just before the starting line or standing on the starting line with their kites in the air, blocking the starting line. Also, they all had radios to communicate with each other during races and were quite unhappy not to be allowed to use them.

To top off anomaly, the race committee did not have a proper set of flags, organizers had forgotten about them. That felt a bit Mickey Mouse.

The next racing day, the kite class race director finally convinced the regatta director to use somewhat of a triangle course which was far more appropriate and created much less of a problem. Also, we did 3 laps instead of 4.

Norm


Top
Profile
 Post subject: Re: Accident in race Wissa 2011 Finland
PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 10:08 am 
Offline
Rare Poster

Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2006 1:08 pm
Posts: 10
Location: belgium - antwerp
Well Norm, that looks like a lot of inexperience. But this is something to learn from to the next championship.

With WC or EC in Kite-Buggy we try to use as many markers as possible. Up to 15 for a track. Offcourse u will need the space to do this but when this is possible they should do it.
If u use so many markers then u can make a course where riders do not cross each other and this will also seperate the top riders from the rest in 1 lap.

Counting, always a problem in races in every discipline. Get the speed out of the course where the counting point is.

Isn't there a reprensative for every country at the WC? They should come together with the racing directors to discuss all of this. Races also can be cancelled because not following the rules.

Good Luck!


Top
Profile
 Post subject: Re: Accident in race Wissa 2011 Finland
PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 6:16 pm 
Offline
Frequent Poster

Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 6:29 pm
Posts: 245
Location: south east pa PKF SUX!!!
A figure 8 for kite races sounds stupid to begin with. In the US its called demolition derby.


Top
Profile
 Post subject: Re: Accident in race Wissa 2011 Finland
PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 7:31 pm 
Offline
Medium Poster

Joined: Tue Jul 01, 2003 5:24 am
Posts: 56
Location: Eastern Canada
As I said in a previous post, the figure 8 course is appropriate in the sled (windsurfing) and kitewing classes. There were no complaint whatsoever from these classes, at least none that I am aware of. I also understand that one could think that since it works well in the sled and wing classes, it should work for the kite class, as we are also sailors. The only reason that I knew the figure 8 course did not work, or should I say dangerous for body collisions, is that we have tried it here in our championship. It worked okay when the course was long enough (over 1km or 0,6mi between marks), but was way more dangerous when the course was short (400-500m or 450-575yards).

One thing about the way the WISSA operates is that there is no continuity with the race committee. Every organizer is responsible to provide a race committee and, from what I know, little if any information is carried from year to year to the next racing committee. Some years, the committee is good and competent. Some years, well, we have no such luck. This year, the head of the regatta was a guy that comes from the sled class, not from the kite class. Then there was one guy heading the sled and kitewing class, and another guy heading the kite class. Those two guys are, to my knowledge and appreciation, competent in their respective class. As it was explained to me, the head of the regatta basically decided pretty much everything and was not opened whatsoever to discussion, bullying his decisions on how to run the races for all classes. On the second day of racing, the kite guy stood up and was able to impose how to run the kite class races and things went well from then on.

One thing I have not mentioned. The event organizers wanted to have a "kite cross" event that included 3 disciplines: slalom races, speed and expression (free style). For the slalom, they thought it would be good to have two different paths, at the rider's choice (5 riders at a time): either you start port tack or starboard tack with a standing start, on the same course. That meant more collision paths at high speed. Many kiters expressed very high concerns about this and did not want to do it. Finally, we settled for one course with 5 marks, a start line, a finish line and a running start, 5 people at a time. Otherwise it would have been a demolition derby.

People that organize such events all have the best intentions in the world. It is not always easy. For example, last year, the event had to be moved from one location to another 75km away, as the original location had been declared unsafe by the authorities two weeks prior to the beginning of the event. It was the first time in decades that the location had been declared unsafe so early in the season. Many volunteers that lived minutes from the original location now had to drive for almost one hour to do their "volunteer work". As you may expect and understandably, many volunteers would not do that additional 150km/day for 6 days. Plus the city where the event was to be held and many local sponsors decided to call it off on their side, depriving the organizer from money he had been promised. And this year was not short of pre-event catastrophes either. It is almost a miracle that this event can take place year after year, a miracle made by those organizers.

Norm


Top
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic
 [ 20 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

All times are UTC + 1 hour


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group