Conflict with beach user.....you can't please everyone.

[POACHER]

At some point manners and being polite are out the window. I'm somewhat in agreement with superstoke, we don't always have to be yielding pussys either.

As a wiseman once told me, "Sometimes the best way to drive a point home is with a fist."
I don't condone violence, but some fuckers NEED to be told the hard way.

Try pulling that shit in Hawaii with the locals. You'll end up eating your dinner through a straw.

[RichardM]

you did everything right, including staying calm.
You can only ask politely and explain why this would be great if he moves.
But you will quickly feel if that person is a jerk or not...smart people understand and will be happy to move. Stupid wannabees will cause trouble and raise hell.
There are that many nice people on earth, and that many idiots.
At least you still had a great time, so never mind that guy and waist your positive thoughts and memory on him!

poacher didn’t say where this happened but assuming it was the US side of the Great Lakes and that there is no official policy or rule stating that kiters have any kind of priority, the boater was EXACTLY CORRECT. And any attitude that infers that any other user should have to yield their right to access in ANY way is EXACTLY the attitude which creates bans.

Assuming that poacher’s account is exactly correct and not slanted at all, poacher made a SERIOUS MISTAKE by telling the guy that he and his family would be in danger by being there. Not only is this a thinly veiled THREAT which could have been morphed into a dangerous escalation of the conflict with substantial potential for the “terrorist” kiters to be involved as defendants in violation of Park rules or laws, but much WORSE is the implication that they will use the inherent DANGERS OF KITING to threaten harm to the boater.

NO KITER SHOULD EVER TRY TO MOTIVATE AN UNCOOPERATIVE NON-KITER TO MOVE BY IMPLYING THAT ANY TYPE OF HARM TO THE NON-KITER MIGHT RESULT FROM KITING ACTIVITY !!! Note that “HARM” includes ANY anxiety as well as physical injury.

A better approach is to just say you need space. If they are the slightest bit annoyed or uncooperative, you should LEAVE THEM ALONE. If that means no kiting, then DON’T. If you don’t like BEING THE ABSOLUTE BOTTOM OF THE FOOD CHAIN REGARDING USE OF THE PUBLIC RESOURCE, your ONLY option is to get the local AUTHORITY to grant you some special use consideration (good luck).

I’m very surprised and disappointed that Toby would condone the above type of threat. If a kiter is such an a$$hole that he thinks it proper to threaten non-kiters, he should tell them he’ll shoot them or rape their daughter – NOT that they’ll be injured due to kiting activity.

At some point manners and being polite are out the window. I'm somewhat in agreement with superstoke, we don't always have to be yielding pussys either.

As a wiseman once told me, "Sometimes the best way to drive a point home is with a fist."
I don't condone violence, but some fuckers NEED to be told the hard way.

Try pulling that shit in Hawaii with the locals. You'll end up eating your dinner through a straw.

Since you and some other rocket scientists think “we don't always have to be yielding pussys either.”, PLEASE list the reason(s) why not. I have a strong interest in access issues and I’d love to be able convince the people who REALLY matter (authorities) of your dangerous WISHFUL THINKING.

Richard M.
Malibu Kitesurfing - since 2002
(310) - 430 - KITE (5483)
http://www.MalibuKitesurfing.NET
kfRichard@MalibuKitesurfing.NET

[Jono 111]

Richard -

You shouldnt have made that comment about raping their daughter.

Its in extremely poor taste and is innappropriate whatever the context.

You let yourself down with that one.

Whether you were trying to make a point. Whether whatever, its just bad form and not intelligent.

[RichardM]

Richard -

You shouldnt have made that comment about raping their daughter.

Its in extremely poor taste and is innappropriate whatever the context.

You let yourself down with that one.

Whether you were trying to make a point. Whether whatever, its just bad form and not intelligent.

I don't understand your distress but would it be OK if I said something like "shoot or rape them" with no gender implication instead?

[grantman54]

I dont really get how a single fishing boat can be such a problem? If there was a small boat anchored, I would only give 50ft of room. If it had people in it, I would probably give it more, but I mean common. If you are too inexperienced to be able to control your kite and yourself, even if its crashed, then you shouldn't be telling anyone to move.

[JBD]

On the Great Lakes kiters are considered water tows and have zero navigation rights over boaters. Kiters must always stand down and give the boat the right of way. That from the US Coast Guard Detroit and Port Huron office. They also pointed out that if we where to have rights we would be subject to boater laws regarding safety equipment.

From a different point of view I was in the exact opposite situation when a duck hunter approached me from a quarter mile away and asked me to move. When I refused he acted about the same as your guy.

I think you did the right thing by politely asking him to move and like myself the day I refused he had the same right. Where I think you went wrong was suggesting that he may be in some kind of danger because he is correct that you are responsible for your equipment. On Lake St Clair we ride among boats all the time without issues and yes there are some that throw down amongst the spectators in some pretty tight places. Sure he over reacted and was unreasonable but he had the right to stay put.

[CaptainArgh]

Richard -

You shouldnt have made that comment about raping their daughter.

Its in extremely poor taste and is innappropriate whatever the context.

You let yourself down with that one.

Whether you were trying to make a point. Whether whatever, its just bad form and not intelligent.

I don't understand your distress but would it be OK if I said something like "shoot or rape them" with no gender implication instead?

audio from "Blazing Saddles"

[POACHER]

First off, really Richard M? You're comparing us politely asking a guy to kindly move his boat with us threating him physical harm and/or raping his daughter? Wow.........dude that's light years apart and a really stupid comment. Secondly we DID NOT tell him to leave. We have no problem sharing the spot. I know it's hard for you to visualize this spot, but it's SMALL. There IS NOT another place to launch/land your kite on the entire lake in a SW wind. So thanks for your heads up Grantman.
I've been riding since 2001, I can control my equipment.

We took the high road and asked this guy nicely if he would move, we didn't threaten him in any way. Telling him about the inherent danger of being where we were riding is the truth. I don't think you need to tip toe around it. This guy was 100% putting his boat there to be a dick. Even so, we weren't about to tell him he COULDN'T be there. But I'll be damned if I'm going to yield to this shit head when we were there first and willing to share. Grow a pair man. Just because you kite doesn't mean you have to be a door mat to everyone else using the area.
Or does it?

[RichardM]

First off, really Richard M? You're comparing us politely asking a guy to kindly move his boat with us 1. threating him physical harm and/or raping his daughter? Wow.........dude that's light years apart and a really stupid comment. Secondly we DID NOT tell him to leave. We have no problem sharing the spot. I know it's hard for you to visualize this spot, but it's SMALL. There IS NOT another place to launch/land your kite on the entire lake in a SW wind. So thanks for your heads up Grantman.
I've been riding since 2001, I can control my equipment.

We took the high road and asked this guy nicely if he would move, 2. we didn't threaten him in any way. Telling him about 3. the inherent danger of being where we were riding is the truth. I don't think you need to tip toe around it. This guy was 100% putting his boat there to be a dick. Even so, we weren't about to tell him he COULDN'T be there. But I'll be damned if I'm going to yield to this shit head when 4. we were there first and willing to share. Grow a pair man. Just because you kite doesn't mean you have to be a door mat to everyone else using the area.
5. Or does it?

poacher:

1. Please read more carefully. I was making the point that ANY OTHER threat would be preferable to implying harm due to kiting activity.

2. Obviously you threatened him and denying it changes NOTHING.

3. Although you have the right to tell people about kiting dangers (or anything else), you obviously only did so in order to make your THREAT more effective. Furthermore, going out of your way to unnecessarily educate non-kiters about kiting dangers is rarely helpful at any time and especially when it is in the context of a threat.

4. If you think being “there first” somehow moves kiters up the beach use food chain, PLEASE explain how so that I can present this well thought out concept to authorities who may not agree.

5. In my previous post I asked for you or anyone else to present the reason(s) why kiters should not be at the BOTTOM of said food chain. So far, you’ve mentioned being “there first”.

Richard M.
Malibu Kitesurfing - since 2002
(310) - 430 - KITE (5483)
http://www.MalibuKitesurfing.NET
kfRichard@MalibuKitesurfing.NET

[tautologies]

it might not come through properly, but
I think Richard was talking in legal terms. I don't know how it would come out, but when you say for their safety in a public space you are giving people arguments for why kiting should be disallowed, even if you didn't mean to.

I'd be very hesitant to ask anyone to move in a public space. If I did, I'd ask for a favor. People like to do favors especially if you tell them how much you would appreciate it. because they are building social capital. People do not like to be told what to do.

Kind of super polite, excuse me sir I am so sorry to bother you, but do you think it would be possible to move the boat just a tad, and then tell them how much you would appreciate it. All smiling.

If they don't then just stay away, even if it is a PITA. Much easier to resolve issues before they become conflicts.