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 Post subject: Re: Raceboard - How the hell do I ride this thing??
PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 5:13 pm 
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I would start with a smaller kite instead :thumb:

Everything is easier, and a 16m2 sounds like a huge size for light wind :o (but I dont know your weight...)

I am 77kg, but having tried a 15m2 and a 12m2 neck and neck and tested with a GPS - I actually had the same upwind angle with the 12m2, but WAY more control, and everything was easier with the 12.

So I ditched the 15m2 fully, and havent got more than a 12m2 for light wind now.

As you are new to raceboards - you should start with a smaller kite in 12 knots (which is A LOT OF WIND), and you will see how everything is easier 8)

Really big kites are not forgiving, as they depower like sh.. compared to "normal" kitesizes, and as raceboards build a huge amount of apparent wind on all courses - it wont work if you can not depower the kite sufficiently (meaning: kite too big).


When you have learned, you can change to your 16m2 later (maybe) :naughty:


In 12 knots I can easily ride the (small) North LTD 2010 with a 10m2 kite if I want to, or a 12m2 but FULLY lit then :rollgrin:

:D Peter


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 Post subject: Re: Raceboard - How the hell do I ride this thing??
PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 5:21 pm 
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Hi,

When going downwind for me is more confortable taking the back foot out of the strap and usually put the foot upper in the board. While downwinding you are far less powered and the kite should not pull you up. If the kite is still too much powered then definitely you need a smaller kite that day.

Managing power upwind, bend your legs to keep your weight low and keep your body backwards. Trying not be very fast and edging more (edging direction I mean) also helps when fully powered up.

If your kite is too much powered, use a smaller kite. If not, I find having my kite higher helps in reducing power on those conditions. I can still edge with no problem.


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 Post subject: Re: Raceboard - How the hell do I ride this thing??
PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 5:47 pm 
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Yeah, I feel like it's way more mannagable going as far upwind as possible or as far downwind as possible, when going upwind, dial it down to get speed and power and when going downwind, dial it up to power up.

It likes upwind and it likes downwind. It's the inbetween that is tough


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 Post subject: Re: Raceboard - How the hell do I ride this thing??
PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 6:07 pm 
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Location: Denmark
TooMuchEpoxy wrote:
Yeah, I feel like it's way more mannagable going as far upwind as possible or as far downwind as possible, when going upwind, dial it down to get speed and power and when going downwind, dial it up to power up.

It likes upwind and it likes downwind. It's the inbetween that is tough


These boards are not designed for "the inbetween" and they all suck on halfwind, compared to almost ANY other board IMO :o

If it is for racing, you dont need to go halfwind.

For light wind (12 knots is not light at all), it is easy to go halfwind - but above that, with sizes that fit up and downwind, it is NOT easy nor fun - except if you see it as a challenge to blast halfwind with max speed without losing all control :roll:

This is the very course (halfwind) where windsurfers still can beat the crap out of kitesurfers :naughty:

But on straight up and downwind legs, kiteraceboards is typically better/faster now :thumb:

Going downwind, I keep my back foot in the strap, in order to ride fast - as your vmg will decrease if you go deeper with less speed.
The vmg will also decrease if you ride with max speed downwind.

The "golden point" downwind for a kiteraceboard, is to go as deep as possible, and work the kite in order to go as deep as possible, but still go so high that you can hold a lot of (but not max) speed.

You will find out when you go test yourself with GPS to find your max vmg for a given wind and kitesize and board 8)

Thats what it is all about, right ?

:D Peter


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 Post subject: Re: Raceboard - How the hell do I ride this thing??
PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 6:51 pm 
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I race sailboats...VMG is everything.

Thanks for the insight all, ready to start pushing it.

Back at it this afternoon.


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 Post subject: Re: Raceboard - How the hell do I ride this thing??
PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 7:09 pm 
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TooMuchEpoxy wrote:
there's absolutely 0 edge control. Spilling power by letting the board point towards the kite doesn't happen. Only when your going downwind and that is a SLOW process..

As for standing on the board out of the straps, without atleast one foot in the straps the kite immedately pulls you off becuase when sailing flat the board is not pushing up into your feet, your feet are pushing across the board.


Spill power by grinding a little extra on the fins. You can go in a lot higher winds than that...but yeah it is different. You'll get the hang of it, just stick with it. :-)

When you ride, lean back..the kite should hold you up. Less weight on the board. It does depend on how much wind, but it is pretty amazing the speeds you can achieve in those kinds of wind :--)

:thumb:


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 Post subject: Re: Raceboard - How the hell do I ride this thing??
PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 7:41 pm 
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Joined: Fri Apr 30, 2010 12:50 am
Posts: 73
Off the top of my head there are 4 answers to the question....or let me make sure I have the question right first....how to bleed speed when you start going way too fast.

some solutions

1.) The oh shit I am about to hit something and really need to slow down

answer: take the rear foot out of the strap and place it in the middle, bring the kite high. You'll slow down substantially

2.) The oh shit I am cruising upwind and I want to slow down a little so I don't explode, but I don't want to bleed too much speed.

answer: way trickier. If you're going upwind one way to do this is to jam hard on your back leg (meaning straighten your back leg and really try to force the board higher into the wind)...you'll immediately start going slower. The problem is it takes leg strength. If you get fatigued, you are most likely to hike less, meaning you will sail a lower angle and start going faster and faster and faster until you explode. Hiking hard will allow you to sail higher and slower. Do wall sits to build the quad muscles. Kite racing is all in the legs.

3.) The oh shit I'm going downwind at Mach 5 and my life is flashing before my eyes and why the hell did I buy this stupid raceboard.

answer: looping your kite is your BEST FRIEND in heavy breeze downwind. It is obviously an advanced maneuver, but is super important to learn if you want to ride your board super juiced. The problem is, learning required some serious leaps of faith and you will definetly take some major falls. Here is the theory. You're going downwind and stuck at an angle of unstoppable acceleration. In sailing they call it the "death zone" or "power zone". Its like you're on a reach and you get hit by a 30 knot puff....and your kite is too big...now what?

By either back looping, or front looping your kite, you can generate a strong burst of speed that drives you deep deep downwind. When that happens, the apparent wind shifts to make it feel as if there is less power in the kite. Example: if its blowing 30 knots, and you are going 30 knots dead downwind, how much wind does your kite feel. 0 knots! and it will fall out of the sky. The backloop/frontloop is a method to reduce the apparent wind in your kite, take the power out of it and sail deeper and slower. Its waaaaaay easier to control than going high and fast.

The way to practice this is to start kiting downwind and bring the kite to 12 without falling down. Start cycling the kite back and forth in figure 8 patterns between 3 and 9 oclock....This will feel weird, and not fast. When you are ready, instead of continuing the figure eights, initiate a backloop and let the kite bring you downwind....if you haven't fallen yet, you can now bring the kite high and directly into a front loop. Continue the cadence....backloop - front loop - back loop - front loop.....you'll be going slow and deep. This is the safest way to go downwind when its nuking. Practice in progressively stronger wind. Once you have the skill its like riding a bike, and you'll be stoked to race in 30 knots.

4.) setting up your rig. The depower system on the stock crossbow is not optimized for racing. Its a freeride kite that just happens to kick ass on the racecourse.

I personally like adding another 3 inches or so of depower into my system so that I never "run out" of depower. If your riding around super juiced with your ass sticking out and the bar all the way to the spring....you could use more depower. The crossbow 16 can be ridden well into the 20's....the reason you can't on stock gear is because you run out of depower. Also do consider, that this design for a reason, mainly your safety. Having a big kite in the air in strong winds is how people die, so please be careful. Also note, that if you change your system than your kit is no longer under the warrantee. You're on your own. The best/safest solution is to go in an get a smaller kite, BUT as racers we often get stuck out on the course without the ability to go switch kites....so we need versatility. If you want that, then modify using the following.

you should be able to make your center lines approx. 20cm shorter than the outer lines (its about the length from the tip of your thumb to the tip of your pinky when your throwing a chaka). The stock system is far less.

here is a link of some systems we play with....i've since switched over to a new one that is totally kick ass. Just haven't put a video out on how to do it...i will soon.



also we're gonna put out some more detailed instructional videos about these types of things to help people along the learning curve. Keep the questions coming!

cheers

-patrick


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 Post subject: Re: Raceboard - How the hell do I ride this thing??
PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 10:18 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 27, 2002 1:00 am
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Location: Hayling Island, UK
patrickrynne wrote:
Off the top of my head there are 4 answers to the question....or let me make sure I have the question right first....how to bleed speed when you start going way too fast.

some solutions

1.) The oh shit I am about to hit something and really need to slow down

answer: take the rear foot out of the strap and place it in the middle, bring the kite high. You'll slow down substantially

2.) The oh shit I am cruising upwind and I want to slow down a little so I don't explode, but I don't want to bleed too much speed.

answer: way trickier. If you're going upwind one way to do this is to jam hard on your back leg (meaning straighten your back leg and really try to force the board higher into the wind)...you'll immediately start going slower. The problem is it takes leg strength. If you get fatigued, you are most likely to hike less, meaning you will sail a lower angle and start going faster and faster and faster until you explode. Hiking hard will allow you to sail higher and slower. Do wall sits to build the quad muscles. Kite racing is all in the legs.

3.) The oh shit I'm going downwind at Mach 5 and my life is flashing before my eyes and why the hell did I buy this stupid raceboard.

answer: looping your kite is your BEST FRIEND in heavy breeze downwind. It is obviously an advanced maneuver, but is super important to learn if you want to ride your board super juiced. The problem is, learning required some serious leaps of faith and you will definetly take some major falls. Here is the theory. You're going downwind and stuck at an angle of unstoppable acceleration. In sailing they call it the "death zone" or "power zone". Its like you're on a reach and you get hit by a 30 knot puff....and your kite is too big...now what?

By either back looping, or front looping your kite, you can generate a strong burst of speed that drives you deep deep downwind. When that happens, the apparent wind shifts to make it feel as if there is less power in the kite. Example: if its blowing 30 knots, and you are going 30 knots dead downwind, how much wind does your kite feel. 0 knots! and it will fall out of the sky. The backloop/frontloop is a method to reduce the apparent wind in your kite, take the power out of it and sail deeper and slower. Its waaaaaay easier to control than going high and fast.

The way to practice this is to start kiting downwind and bring the kite to 12 without falling down. Start cycling the kite back and forth in figure 8 patterns between 3 and 9 oclock....This will feel weird, and not fast. When you are ready, instead of continuing the figure eights, initiate a backloop and let the kite bring you downwind....if you haven't fallen yet, you can now bring the kite high and directly into a front loop. Continue the cadence....backloop - front loop - back loop - front loop.....you'll be going slow and deep. This is the safest way to go downwind when its nuking. Practice in progressively stronger wind. Once you have the skill its like riding a bike, and you'll be stoked to race in 30 knots.

4.) setting up your rig. The depower system on the stock crossbow is not optimized for racing. Its a freeride kite that just happens to kick ass on the racecourse.

I personally like adding another 3 inches or so of depower into my system so that I never "run out" of depower. If your riding around super juiced with your ass sticking out and the bar all the way to the spring....you could use more depower. The crossbow 16 can be ridden well into the 20's....the reason you can't on stock gear is because you run out of depower. Also do consider, that this design for a reason, mainly your safety. Having a big kite in the air in strong winds is how people die, so please be careful. Also note, that if you change your system than your kit is no longer under the warrantee. You're on your own. The best/safest solution is to go in an get a smaller kite, BUT as racers we often get stuck out on the course without the ability to go switch kites....so we need versatility. If you want that, then modify using the following.

you should be able to make your center lines approx. 20cm shorter than the outer lines (its about the length from the tip of your thumb to the tip of your pinky when your throwing a chaka). The stock system is far less.

here is a link of some systems we play with....i've since switched over to a new one that is totally kick ass. Just haven't put a video out on how to do it...i will soon.



also we're gonna put out some more detailed instructional videos about these types of things to help people along the learning curve. Keep the questions coming!

cheers

-patrick


Superb Patrick, the life flashing in front of me comment summed up my session yesterday in 10-15knots with a 19m Raven 3. It was a lot of fun, but felt a little like being shot out of a cannon.

I could hold it together, until I made a back foot/fin pressure mistake and exploded in a ball of spray - and my busted ankle still hurts.

I found that sheeting out or doing anything to slow down always ended in a big wipeout and it was better to keep locked in.... but I don't think I would do too well in a race!


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 Post subject: Re: Raceboard - How the hell do I ride this thing??
PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 11:21 pm 
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Posts: 280
hey patrick,can you give me some tips on tacking. i can't get the board to pivot on the fins?


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 Post subject: Re: Raceboard - How the hell do I ride this thing??
PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 11:54 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2011 2:09 pm
Posts: 111
Thanks for the extensive tutorial patrick. You guys at ASM have been awesome. Let a buddy take the board and kite for a spin today and his Laser(sailboat) is on craigslist as we speak. He'll be calling you shortly...

Today was 7-10. Did a couple of miles upwind across the harbor to the next island and came back and did a couple of runs of the beach. Everything felt DIALED. I'll try to work up to bigger breeze SLOWLY. Wall sits, squats on the indo board, building a new depower system(sail racer so this is not a problem)

Yesterday was a little difficult but today was BUTTER. Looking forward to MORE. Gotta find a GPS to track VMG...


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