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Leaving lines attached when packing away

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SupaEZ
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Re: Leaving lines attached when packing away

Postby SupaEZ » Mon Nov 21, 2011 2:35 pm

dyyylan wrote:
WildDuke wrote:Toby brought up an interesting point in his thread relating to pet peeves, and that was leaving lines attached to the kite when packing away. I only have one kite and one bar and I remove the lines every time, basically because I have never come across anyone who doesn't. Does anybody else do this? It certainly makes sense!


Because it only takes about 20 seconds to attach your lines


That is 5 seconds per line! I have watched people attach lines on their kites for 12 years and it takes longer than that when they set-up their kites properly....Removing lines is what takes little time ...In any case it is good to learn "both methods" of unpacking/packing kite with lines on or off and should be taught by kite schools in the very beginning :thumb:

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Re: Leaving lines attached when packing away

Postby ragden » Mon Nov 21, 2011 2:40 pm

When I owned an LEI, I alwasy removed the lines when putting it away. Until I rode with some of the locals around the beach I always went to. None of them removed the lines. They all left it attached. The thing I noted was that they did not put the bar inside the kite. They would put it in a side pocket, or slide it into the bag next to the kite. Never inside the kite.

Even if you put it inside the kite, and the lines crossed over, untwisting is generally pretty easy. Either way you do it, you are still going to want to walk the lines to make sure everything is straight. Though, I have found that generally if they are already attached, they do not get as twisted around eachother than if they had been removed...

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Re: Leaving lines attached when packing away

Postby windyway » Mon Nov 21, 2011 3:22 pm

I purchase a bar and lines with each new kite,
because it is easier to resell a kite complete with bar and lines.
For the $250 extra for bar and lines, the resale returns $150 to $200.
So, its not a big expense for the pleasure of a fresh bar.

Since I have a bar for each kite, I keep my lines always attached.
Before folding the kite, I wind up my lines and lay the bar on the center strut near the inflation valve.
When setting up, you will layout your lines downwind of the kite.
Then you will easily see that your lines are correct from the bar to the wingtips.
No tangles, no crossed lines, and a bit quicker too.

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Re: Leaving lines attached when packing away

Postby SupaEZ » Mon Nov 21, 2011 4:25 pm

Yes bar/lines kept attached and put outside the kite "2 feet in front" of leading edge and "lined up with center strut and/or inflation valve"...all lines and/or bridles that remain are then put in kite somewhat loosely... ( very important not to "overwind" your lines on bar)...Fold your kite wingtips to center....then fold in 2 or 3 from trailing edge (thin area of kite) to leading edge....When setting up next time just do everything in reverse exactly..... By leaving bar out with 2 feet to spare from leading edge it is easy to do bar/lines rinse out. :thumb:

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Re: Leaving lines attached when packing away

Postby knotwindy » Mon Nov 21, 2011 5:09 pm

the thing i noticed when i was leaving the lines attached and stopped walk the lines out was i was not checking the lines for nicks or cuts or knots. the one minute saved was not worth the chance of a bad line. and if you are going to walk the lines anyway to check them, leaving them attached saves no time at all. so why chance the tangles?

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Re: Leaving lines attached when packing away

Postby frankm1960 » Mon Nov 21, 2011 5:23 pm

If you disconnect lines after each session you have a better chance of catching worn out pigtails or line ends... where a lot of wear can take place depending on where you ride... actually more dependent on how you launch probably :)

Like in previous posts it's probably safer to disconnect lines right away after a session to disable the kite when on the beach.

I can't think of one good reason to leave them on.... is it quicker to rig and de-rig or what?

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Re: Leaving lines attached when packing away

Postby Marty » Mon Nov 21, 2011 7:09 pm

frankm1960 wrote:I can't think of one good reason to leave them on.... is it quicker to rig and de-rig or what?


I feel just the opposite, I can't find a good reason to take them off.

I'll bet I check my lines winding them up or unwinding them,
more than most kiters do by not attaching them up.

I use a small bag to put my bar in to avoid rubbing against the kite.

4 years of leaving lines attached has not produced one valid reason for me to undo the lines, IMHO
(other than 1 bar for multiple kites)


My reasons,

#1,, it's a bitch to walk lines out in the powder (snow)
I can pump my kite on a little hill, then unwind my lines as I am sliding downhill, then launch.

#2,, I can be ready to launch much quicker.

#3,,they are always attached correctly.

#4,, I don't look like I 'm playing with my self while untangleing my lines while walking them out,,ha,,ha

It's all about your comfort zone, always do the things that make you comfortable.
No right or wrong.

Marty

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Re: Leaving lines attached when packing away

Postby SupaEZ » Mon Nov 21, 2011 7:15 pm

In a PERFECT WORLD where every single tube kite would have their bar and lines the RITUAL of "lines off and on" would cease to exist just like the dinosaurs :D

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Re: Leaving lines attached when packing away

Postby Peter_Frank » Tue Nov 22, 2011 1:57 am

knotwindy wrote:the thing i noticed when i was leaving the lines attached and stopped walk the lines out was i was not checking the lines for nicks or cuts or knots. the one minute saved was not worth the chance of a bad line. and if you are going to walk the lines anyway to check them, leaving them attached saves no time at all. so why chance the tangles?


Spot on :thumb:

I actually have a bar for every kite - as I have found you relatively often rig two kites for a day with shifty wind, or wind between the sizes, and the last thing you want to do, is to waste time changing lines whenever you go ashore to take the other size.

Apart from that - when you are really stoked on kitesurfing and do it a lot, you will get what is necessary - AND, your kites will typically outwear your bar/lines anyway if you only got one bar, so having one bar for 4 kites f.ex, would mean the lines would go bad way earlier than your kites, and you would not have a backup in case something happens, and you could miss out on the best day of the year (according to Murphy).
Furthermore - you can trim your bar exactly the way you like for each kite with individual bar - which is important to me. I also like shorter bars for the small kites - so thats another reason for me, but some prefer the same length, I know.
That was a sidenote - just why I prefer a bar for every kite, or at least two bars for all kites :thumb:


So I could leave the lines attached if I wanted to.

Okay, lets use a bit of time (some would say waste some time ha haa) and analyze:

Lines always connected -

1. You have to be VERY careful when packing the kite down, and folding the kite, that no line will cross the kite or the bar or get inside out etc. - so you use more time packing down, and a bit more restricted in what and how you do it.

2. When you rig up, you have to be very careful how and where you put your bar - and always be aware that no lines will cross the kite or bar.

3. When rolling the bar out, you use the same time whether lines are connected or not connected.

4. Walking the lines out, is often felt as a necessity to be sure there are no crossed lines - but when you do this, the bar will usually be spun a couple of times - so makes no sense as not easy or impossible to see if any crossed ones, if they are spun multiple times - as they will be usually :(
If you got a helper standing with the kite though - there is a big advantage - as you dont walk the lines, but take the chance that they are correct, and can unspin the bar to see if they are not crossed :thumb:
Here you can save a lot of time actually - if it goes right !
If it goes wrong, and some are crossed or inside out, it is simply a :x

You should remember to roll your pulleys free of sand BEFORE you go to the bar, if starting this way. Just a hint - as easier to forget...


Lines not connected -

1. You use 20 seconds taking the lines off - but then you can pack down way faster and without being extremely careful - also much easier to turn the kite around without getting lines caught in something - before deflating.

2. Rigging up, you can just pump the kite easy and free without constraints because of lines.

3. When rolling the bar out, you use the same time whether lines are connected or not connected.

4. Walking the lines out - here you will use a little extra time always, with the very line ends :-?
And then you have to use an extra half minute or so for attaching 4 lines (I can not see why attaching lines should be longer than removing lines).
You spin the pulleys free of sand - which is much more natural and easy to remember - when you attach the lines every time.

-------------------------------

I used to keep my lines attached for a period years ago - to see if an advantage.

But personally I've found it is not worth it - you lose way more than you gain !

For one, I dont know if I will be (or at least start) alone the next time I go out, so having the lines attached dont save walking back and fourth instances no more.

Second - I have experienced that lines can get crossed extremely easy sooner or later, no matter how careful you are. And just ONE day where they are crossed - kind of ruins a whole lot IMO, as I HATE using time on that.
If crossed up at the kite, you can not untwist by means of putting lines around the bar - and if starting alone you can not do it without using a huge amount of time walking lines out many times and unspinning till you get it right :x

If it goes well, it is easy, although not faster, to set up !
If not, it is a :x :x :x

So, let alone the way you have to be extremely careful (slower) both rigging up and down, easily outweighs the advantage of not connection/disconnecting every time IMO.

And on top of that - comes the mess for the (maybe rare - but they WILL appear) situations, if connected, and not correct so you have to "solve".

In the early days one used some time uncrossing lines, and helping others uncross theirs - as we were a bit less experienced and sometimes lines got crossed or inside out, or the bar slipped inside itself etc.

But today, where setting a kite up is much more a fixed "routine" it seems that it is much more efficient to detach and attach the lines every time - so you know 100% they are right from the start :thumb:

IT FEELS GOOD :rollgrin:

In snow there are other reasons why letting the kitelines be attached could be in favor (gloves, and stiffer loops = more time to fix) - but that is not kitesurfing.

Attached or not - an individual thing and a choice - but above is why I (and most I know, in fact everyone I think) dont leave them attached.

:D Peter

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Re: Leaving lines attached when packing away

Postby optimus » Tue Nov 22, 2011 2:06 am

One thing I'll say is that since I started keeping my lines attached, I have never forgotten my bar at the beach.


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